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Old 04-17-2008, 09:37 PM   #16
Drew101
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Default Re: Cesar Chavez - Was He Really Shot...

Definitely shot against KT. In his previous fight, he had been battered by Willy Wise, so that pretty much is an indicator of just how far gone he really was.

Against DLH the first time, he was well past his best, but still a pretty viable fighter against second-tier opposition.
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Old 04-18-2008, 10:49 AM   #17
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Default Re: Cesar Chavez - Was He Really Shot...

Chavez was over the brow of the hill really from Taylor I onwards. At 140 he was not the same fighter. Whittaker did a great job on him and deserves to be ranked higher but i think the difference between them is not as much as that fight suggests.

By the time he met DLH he was a good contender but nothing more. DLH did what he had to do so i won't criticise him.
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Old 04-19-2008, 12:50 AM   #18
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Default Re: Cesar Chavez - Was He Really Shot...

Against Tszyu yes he was shot for sure, against De La Hoya, no he wasn't shot. He was past his prime and faded but he still had a bit left. Decent win for De La Hoya who's status is enhanced by the way he destroyed Chavez.
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Old 04-19-2008, 01:52 AM   #19
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Default Re: Cesar Chavez - Was He Really Shot...

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuzieQ49
more like 10-2. IMO oscar would have always beaten chavez prime or no prime. Oscar was the best bure poxer of that era, amazing boxing skills from a technical standpoint. His jab was phenominal and he threw combinations in bunches like no other.


Oscar fought EVERYBODY, he avoided no one. He should aways get credit for that, he had no fear.
Did he throw combinations in bunches better than Meldrick Taylor - who Chavez beat? Did he have Meldrick's endurance to throw 1000 punches in a fight?

All you have to do is look at DLH's fight with Chavez in the rematch, where Chavez was shot to shit, and Chavez was still doing ok in there, to know that DLH would have HELL with a prime Chavez. At 135 certainly, but I'm talking even the 140 CHavez.
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Old 04-21-2008, 12:49 PM   #20
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Default Re: Cesar Chavez - Was He Really Shot...

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuzieQ49
more like 10-2. IMO oscar would have always beaten chavez prime or no prime. Oscar was the best bure poxer of that era, amazing boxing skills from a technical standpoint. His jab was phenominal and he threw combinations in bunches like no other.


Oscar fought EVERYBODY, he avoided no one. He should aways get credit for that, he had no fear.
In his prime Oscar barely beat Miguel A. Gonzalez, which was a poor man's Chavez. Almost the same style as Chavez, but not nearly as effective. A prime Chavez would have destroyed De La Hoya. Hopkins body attack was nothing compared to Chavez'. Oscar also never had the stamina to go twelve hard rounds & faded in the late rounds, which Chavez was at his best.
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Old 04-28-2008, 08:25 PM   #21
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Default Re: Cesar Chavez - Was He Really Shot...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack
Where was he ranked P4P when De La Hoya beat him the first time?
He wasn't ranked.
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Old 04-28-2008, 08:28 PM   #22
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Default Re: Cesar Chavez - Was He Really Shot...

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Originally Posted by la-califa
In his prime Oscar barely beat Miguel A. Gonzalez, which was a poor man's Chavez. Almost the same style as Chavez, but not nearly as effective. A prime Chavez would have destroyed De La Hoya. Hopkins body attack was nothing compared to Chavez'. Oscar also never had the stamina to go twelve hard rounds & faded in the late rounds, which Chavez was at his best.
What?

De La Hoya kicked his ass. Gonzalez's head was target practice for De La Hoya's left hand. Oscar either got tired or his eye was bothering him, so he took a couple rounds off (ran like the late rounds versus Tito) before having a strong round 12, but the fight wasn't close.
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Old 04-28-2008, 10:56 PM   #23
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Default Re: Cesar Chavez - Was He Really Shot...

Cesar Chavez was a labor leader & co-founder of the United Farm Workers. His exploits are legendary & we celebrate him like crazy in California...
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Old 04-28-2008, 11:37 PM   #24
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Default Re: Cesar Chavez - Was He Really Shot...

HELL YES HE WAS SHOT!

JC Chavez turned pro in 1980. He won his first world championship in 1984 at 130 pounds. His title defenses included Ruben Castillo, Roger Mayweather, Rocky Lockridge, and Juan LaPorte.

He won the 135-pound lightweight title in 1987, stopping Edwin Rosario. He also defeated Jose Luis Ramirez to unify two belts.

He won the light-welterweight title in 1989, defeating Roger Mayweather.

In March 1990, he defeated Meldrick Taylor to unify two light welter crowns. At that point, Chavez was 69-0, having fought for ten years as a professional. It was THE fight.

In 1992, Chavez won a unanimous decision over Hector Camacho.

In 1993, Chavez stopped Greg Haugen.

In late 1993, in a welterweight fight, 87-0 Chavez fought Pernell Whitaker to a draw, which most felt he should have lost. In 1994, 89-0-1 Chavez lost to Frankie Randall. In a 1994 return bout, Chavez won a less than impressive 8-round technical decision over Randall. He also stopped Meldrick Taylor in 8 rounds in a return bout, but both fighters seemed very slow compared to what they once were.

Quite frankly, Chavez probably was never the same again after the 1990 Taylor fight. Certainly, by 1993, it was evident that Chavez had slowed a step. It was obvious that he had markedly slowed down, even in victory, against Taylor, in their rematch. If you compare Chavez’s style, speed, pace, and defense in the subsequent Lopez, Parisi, and Kamau bouts, it is patently obvious how badly he had slowed down. Still, he was such a great fighter that he was able to pull off victories, much like Joe Louis was in many fights at the tail end of his career even when he looked slow as molasses.

So yes, Chavez was vastly diminished in 1996 when he fought Oscar de la Hoya, 16 years and 98 fights into his career.

Again, he looked quite slow, his pace poor, the zip almost gone, when he fought Martin, LaCoursiere, and Gonzalez (a draw). For the 1998 rematch against ODH, he was operating on fumes.

By 1999, he lost a unanimous decision to Willy Wise, who had lost his last three previous fights. So it cannot be shocking that in 2000, 20 years into his career, Tszyu starched him. It was pathetic and sad. How can you feel good about knocking out a guy who, in a boxing sense, was a grandpa?
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Old 04-29-2008, 01:27 AM   #25
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Default Re: Cesar Chavez - Was He Really Shot...

Thanks for a good breakdown, apollack. After seeing Chavez diminish progressively from Sweet Pea to Randall to Randall again, a fight against a young lion like De la Hoya seemed unnecessarily postclimactic and quite predictable. Prime Chavez would beat Oscar at 140.
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