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Old 04-29-2008, 10:48 AM   #1
Maxmomer
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Default Benny Leonard - The Ghetto Wizard

I don't see his name pop up here much. Thoughts? Where does he stand amongst the your all time lightweights? How good is he H2H and from a legacy standpoint?
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Old 04-29-2008, 10:53 AM   #2
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Default Re: Benny Leonard - The Ghetto Wizard

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Originally Posted by Maxmomer
I don't see his name pop up here much. Thoughts? Where does he stand amongst the your all time lightweights? How good is he H2H and from a legacy standpoint?
I have him at number 2 at 135 still (no priizes for guessing my number 1!!), his resume is outstanding
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Old 04-29-2008, 11:59 AM   #3
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Default Re: Benny Leonard - The Ghetto Wizard

i have leonard, gans and duran at the top for my lightweight division. though i might give extra credit to gans because he is my favorite of the three haha. i have no problem putting him at one. and top 10 of all time.
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Old 04-29-2008, 12:20 PM   #4
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Default Re: Benny Leonard - The Ghetto Wizard

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Originally Posted by mightyd40
i have leonard, gans and duran at the top for my lightweight division. though i might give extra credit to gans because he is my favorite of the three haha. i have no problem putting him at one. and top 10 of all time.
I think them 3 are still widely acceptd as the top 3, imo anyway!! Remarkable that Gans is still put at number 1 after all this time, i have Duran there, but i dont have any problem with Gans there
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Old 04-29-2008, 12:48 PM   #5
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Default Re: Benny Leonard - The Ghetto Wizard

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Originally Posted by Maxmomer
I don't see his name pop up here much. Thoughts? Where does he stand amongst the your all time lightweights? How good is he H2H and from a legacy standpoint?
Aside from Leonard's brillance in the ring, M, he probably had a bigger influence on the game than most realize.

Just after WWI, Benny stormed outta Billy Grupp's Harlem gym ( the most prestigeous at the time ) with a contingent of great Jewish fighters because Grupp's drunken, anti-semitic rants.

They settled on a non-descript store-front, with little exercise equipment
(intended only by philanthropist Marshall Stillman to keep delinquents off the street) on 125th St. It was run by a former trolley conductor, Lou Ingber...who later became known as Lou Stillman, adopting Stillman's name legally after the fighters kept calling him that.

Stillman knew a good thing when he saw it. Leonard was a magnet for fight fans, and Stillman started charging to watch him and the others train. The gym expanded, attracting more and more fighters, until it couldn't contain the crowds in the early '30s and Stillman had to search for larger quarters.

He found a two-story former union hall on 54th and Eigth Ave. (two blocks from Madison Square Garden) The rest is history. Stillmans gym became the Mecca for the sport, until it shuttered in '59, signaling the end of the sport's Golden Age.
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Old 04-29-2008, 01:58 PM   #6
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Default Re: Benny Leonard - The Ghetto Wizard

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Originally Posted by teeto
Remarkable that Gans is still put at number 1 after all this time, i have Duran there, but i dont have any problem with Gans there
a little quote from one of my favorite movies........"heroes will be remembered but legends never die" ~The Sandlot haha.
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Old 04-29-2008, 02:27 PM   #7
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Default Re: Benny Leonard - The Ghetto Wizard

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Originally Posted by mightyd40
a little quote from one of my favorite movies........"heroes will be remembered but legends never die" ~The Sandlot haha.
Haha - Classic!!!!
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Old 04-29-2008, 02:36 PM   #8
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Default Re: Benny Leonard - The Ghetto Wizard

B. Leonard took the mold of the good old classic past boxers, of which he loved, and vehemently studied, and then put some grease on it - on film Leonard is the smoothest looking fighter up till that point in boxing history.

You see, you can be a good fighter, a contender, a person who had been taught the rudiments of a boxers stance/punches, and got them down to a T, but what separates a man like Leonard from a guy like that was his imagination in the ring - the same applies to Willie Pep - fighters like that, their minds worked quicker and they saw the best option before you would see the third.

It's a matter of adaptability (ring intelligence) - using what you've got (of which Leonard had an awful lot), to the best of your ability (which he did on a few occasions to 'smooth' things out, ala Tendler).

Fighters like Leonard experimented in the ring and thought on their own to help them become omniscient in there, totally dependable, whatever the obstacle was - if you know what to do, instinctively, it is much handier than having to be told by your corner.

It was Leonard's own natural aptitude and 4th dimension towards boxing that allowed him to skate over, very probably, the deepest lightweight division there has been and for this you may rate him anywhere.

Fans know of the 'top three mountains' in the division, but Ted Spoon believes Leonard should be no lower than #1.
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Old 04-29-2008, 03:12 PM   #9
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Default Re: Benny Leonard - The Ghetto Wizard

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Originally Posted by Ted Spoon
B. Leonard took the mold of the good old classic past boxers, of which he loved, and vehemently studied, and then put some grease on it - on film Leonard is the smoothest looking fighter up till that point in boxing history.

You see, you can be a good fighter, a contender, a person who had been taught the rudiments of a boxers stance/punches, and got them down to a T, but what separates a man like Leonard from a guy like that was his imagination in the ring - the same applies to Willie Pep - fighters like that, their minds worked quicker and they saw the best option before you would see the third.

It's a matter of adaptability (ring intelligence) - using what you've got (of which Leonard had an awful lot), to the best of your ability (which he did on a few occasions to 'smooth' things out, ala Tendler).

Fighters like Leonard experimented in the ring and thought on their own to help them become omniscient in there, totally dependable, whatever the obstacle was - if you know what to do, instinctively, it is much handier than having to be told by your corner.

It was Leonard's own natural aptitude and 4th dimension towards boxing that allowed him to skate over, very probably, the deepest lightweight division there has been and for this you may rate him anywhere.

Fans know of the 'top three mountains' in the division, but Ted Spoon believes Leonard should be no lower than #1.
Exquisitely put, TS.

Give the man a hand; that's what I call an ****ysis
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Old 04-29-2008, 03:41 PM   #10
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Default Re: Benny Leonard - The Ghetto Wizard

I have Benny Leonard neck and neck with Duran as the greatest lightweight fighter of all-time.
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Old 04-29-2008, 04:02 PM   #11
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Default Re: Benny Leonard - The Ghetto Wizard

One of my favrote of all time. If I could go back in time to see one great team or athlete at their best it would probbly be Benny Leonard. I rank Benny Leonard #1 at lightweight and #2 all time. I have Pernell Whitaker #1 atg for the record. If his walterweight tittle fight with Jack Britton had been on the level (i beleve he would have won based on the way the acatual fight played out.) I would have him #1 atg. From what I have read about him. (There are a few articals online and Nat Fleischer's book "Leonard the Magnificent) as well as the few videos on youtube; Benny leonard could do whatever he wanted to do inside a boxing ring.
Ray Arcel said this about Benny Leonard “Boxing is brains over brawn. I don’t care how much ability you got, if you can’t think your just another bum in the park. People ask me who’s the greatest boxer I ever saw pound for pound. I hesitate to say, either Benny Leonard or Ray Robinson. But Leonard’s mental energy surpassed anyone else’s.” and Nat Fleischer on Benny Leonard "Leonard had a hair-trigger brain. As he shifted about the ring, the fans could almost read his thoughts as he mapped out his plans of attack. An opponent had to be ever on the alert to avoid a quick knockout. Leonard knew his trade; knew it so thoroughly that almost invariably he could "call his shots," if and when the occasion warranted."
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Old 04-29-2008, 05:07 PM   #12
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Default Re: Benny Leonard - The Ghetto Wizard

I have him ranked #1 all time at LW. His resume there is clearly the best. He was as dominant for his era as Duran and Whitaker for their eras, with ater longevity at the weight and a greater resume.
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Old 04-30-2008, 10:57 AM   #13
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Default Re: Benny Leonard - The Ghetto Wizard

My opinion, second best of all time! Right behind Duran. Ray Arcel himself admitted as much ( somewhat reluctantly i might add ) after Duran beat Sugar Ray Leonard in 1980 and he probably knew more about both than anyone.
Nobody before or since even comes close to these two at 135.
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Old 04-30-2008, 11:19 AM   #14
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Default Re: Benny Leonard - The Ghetto Wizard

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxmomer
I don't see his name pop up here much. Thoughts? Where does he stand amongst the your all time lightweights? How good is he H2H and from a legacy standpoint?
I have Leonard at no 1 ,he dominated the best Light weight division ever for over 7 years

Leonard
Gans
Williams
Duran
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Old 04-30-2008, 11:23 AM   #15
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Default Re: Benny Leonard - The Ghetto Wizard

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Originally Posted by Kidblackie
My opinion, second best of all time! Right behind Duran. Ray Arcel himself admitted as much ( somewhat reluctantly i might add ) after Duran beat Sugar Ray Leonard in 1980 and he probably knew more about both than anyone.
Nobody before or since even comes close to these two at 135.
Ray Arcel didnt begin to work with Leonard till Leonard,s abortive comeback at Welter,when wiped out by the Wall St Crash he broke his promise to his dead Mother and made a comeback ,because he was broke.Benny was balding and tubby when a prime Jimmy Mclarnin stopped him and ended his return to the ring.
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