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Old 07-20-2007, 09:17 AM   #16
JohnThomas1
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Default Re: Benitez-Duran at 140

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Originally Posted by Duodenum
And JT, let's hold our noses here, and give credit where credit is due. The person who mattered that believed in Duran was Bob Arum. ("He's never taken a beating.") Don King rightfully gave up on Duran after the debacle in New Orleans. Arum shrewdly capitalized.

After Duran's challenge of Hagler, Arum stated that he'd be honored to rematch them again. Duran should have kept seized upon that offer, and kept himself active in the interim against clearly beatable opposition. Instead, he made a grievious error (albeit obvious in hindsight) by getting in the ring with Hearns.

Recriminations aside, Arum has had his share of hits and misses, and this was one instance where he made a very successful gamble. (I'd imagine they've both lamented Hearns/Duran countless times. Hagler/Duran II would have been a sure box office sensation, but after what Tommy did to Roberto, any notion of such a return went out the window.)
Correct you are, it was Arum. Now, for maximum points, do you remember who advised Arum he thought Duran wasn't damaged goods as he had never taken any physical whuppings?
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Old 07-20-2007, 09:39 AM   #17
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Default Re: Benitez-Duran at 140

It's my belief that Duran may have overtrained for the Benitez fight. He looked very sluggish after the first 3 or 4 rounds and just couldn't get anything going.

I was reasonably impressed with Duran's 2 previous performances at 154lb as he looked hungry and invested heavily to the body of both Gonzalez & Minchillo who gave him a decent workout even if it was lop-sided.

It's hard to say at 140 as Duran hardly fought there having had so much trouble making 135lb in the late 1970's. At 147 I see Duran doing a similar thing to Benitez as he did to Leonard in their first fight. Aggressive body attack, sharp combinations upstairs and the occasional lacing of the face thrown in for good measure.
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Old 07-20-2007, 09:45 AM   #18
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Default Re: Benitez-Duran at 140

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Originally Posted by JohnThomas1
Correct you are, it was Arum. Now, for maximum points, do you remember who advised Arum he thought Duran wasn't damaged goods as he had never taken any physical whuppings?
It's been a really long time now, but I would imagine it was Arum's matchmaker Teddy Brenner, who made that observation.
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Old 07-20-2007, 10:05 AM   #19
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Default Re: Benitez-Duran at 140

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Originally Posted by Duodenum
It's been a really long time now, but I would imagine it was Arum's matchmaker Teddy Brenner, who made that observation.
Pretty sure it was, well done!
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Old 04-22-2013, 04:49 PM   #20
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Default Re: Benitez-Duran at 140

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Originally Posted by redrooster View Post
A definite should have been. No way did Roberto have any reason to fear Wilfred but decided to shoot for bigger and better opposition.

Benitez at his best coming off a win over Cervantes. Can he follow it up with an even bigger win if Duran decides to compete at 140?
Possibly, but there is a 40/60 chance of Wilfred winning.
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Old 04-22-2013, 05:34 PM   #21
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Default Re: Benitez-Duran at 140

Benitez always beats him. He was faster and would use his speed. Unlike Ray, Wilfred would not fight Duran's fight and he would stick to his fight. He had to fight Ray's fight because Ray was just as fast. Ray could do everything Benitez could, yet Ray was banged up in his fight with Wilfred. Benitez wins a 15 round decision. I have noticed that big matchups which happened between two great fighters usually have the same result regardless of the weights.
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Old 04-22-2013, 11:49 PM   #22
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Default Re: Benitez-Duran at 140

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Originally Posted by Duodenum View Post
I assume the Gonzalez fight you're referring to was against Nino. Two years earlier, SRL badly outshown Roberto on the undercard of Duran's match against another Gonzalez, Zeferino.

Now if you recall, Ray really came of age on that card, with a shockingly sensational first round knockout of Andy Price, in defense of his NABF WW Title. Woefully underprepared to produce a similarly scintillating performance against the lanky upstart Zeferino, Roberto was humiliated. He smiled and clowned his way through an easy ten round decision, but everybody knew that was because he couldn't knock Zeferino out.

The next time Duran stepped in the ring, SRL had dethroned Benitez, and it was a new decade. Against tough uppercutter Joseph Nsubuga, the fire was back. Wolfishly grinning, he rushed Nsubuga like an animal, absorbed some crisp uppercuts out of the corner with no difficulty, and Stonehands swamped Stoneface like a typhoon. In his next match against pro novice Wheatley (who idolized Duran), he demonstrated that he was very hungry for the chance to show Ray up, a hunger that appeared sated after Montreal.

Benitez never had the edginess to him which Duran displayed at his hungriest. He had a lot of trouble with Bruce Curry, and produced an unmotivated showing against Harold Weston, Jr. (Remember how his father slapped him between rounds, to get him going against Harold? Very reminiscent of Gil Clancy during Griffith-Paret I.) Wilfred was outstanding against the skinny and light hitting Shields, but he had not been able to hurt Palomino, and SRL decked him early with a single jab. Ray also handed Benitez a pretty good lesson in boxing basics.

While claiming to want a rematch with SRL, he looked decent against Johnny Turner, but more deliberate than highly motivated. (This despite Turner having earlier kayoed his older brother Frankie out of a viable boxing career.) As Ray provided commentary on his match with Chiaverini, Tony fought Wilfredo's fight, carrying the action to Benitez on the ropes, where Wilfred easily eluded and counterpunched his headhunting opponent into a very one sided stoppage win. Still, he never had the much slower Chiaverini even close to going down, and Tony had neglected the body in his attempted aggression. When Benitez became a champion again, it was obvious Maurice Hope did not belong in the same ring. (The southpaw Hope abandoned what little chance he had of successfully defending his title early, when he inexplicably and stupidly ceased relying on his jab to assault Benitez as Wilfred laid back in wait.) At Hope's expense, Benitez produced the one punch kayo of the year, but there was nothing in Duran's history to indicate he could be knocked senseless that way.

Duran did not display any fire against Minchillo, but he was still punching with leverage (unlike Luigi), and I had Roberto pitching a shutout (as did one of the judges).

After the humiliation of New Orleans, Duran then had a chance to become a champion again, and at the expense of a defending titleholder who had lost a previous championship to his arch nemisis. I figured Roberto would be really fired up to outdo the extent to which SRL had beaten up El Radar, and use that as his ticket to a rubber match with Ray.

So, Duran was a leverage puncher and body attack specialist, who was going in against a defending champion who had been floored at a lower weight by a single jab, and liked to lay back on the ropes to draw his opponents in. There was nothing wrong with Roberto physically, and he'd suddenly recaptured fire once before against Nsubuga, so I figured he'd do it again (just like I expected the slower Palomino to destroy Wilfredo with his downstairs targeting). Furthermore, although Benitez proved against Hope that SRL was correct about his punching power ("I say Benitez can hit!"), it wasn't of sufficient force to trouble Duran. (Since Ray couldn't hurt Duran, how could Wilfredo?) Despite an exchange of punches at a prefight press conference, Duran simply went through the motions of the match itself, displaying more animosity after the bout than he did during it. Benitez took whatever Roberto was able to land without difficulty, and easily landed counters on a challenger who SRL had found to be a pretty elusive target in Montreal.

Logically, there's no way Benitez would avoid getting kayoed by Duran at 140, but for the reasons I've just described, I figured the same principles would apply to the match they actually did have at 154.

Is this sufficient for explaining my erroneous thinking? (If not, feel free to ask for a futher elaboration, and I'll do the best I can to make myself understood. Unfortunately, sometimes no degree of articulation is adequate for expressing a certain process of reasoning behind the conclusions formed.)
dis tread woz wors de bamping iven 4 dis post elown .
extrimli edukeitiv
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Old 04-23-2013, 12:02 AM   #23
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Default Re: Benitez-Duran at 140

Tough style for Duran but I think at that stage of their careers Duran would have been too strong for Benitez.

Roberto Duran was so much quicker in the mid 70s than he was at 154lbs. His hands were faster and he threw more punches and created more openings than he did later on where he plodded a lot more.

I think Benitez would have success and win some rounds probably early but I think Duran breaks through and stops him mid to late. Remember Wilfredo Benitez was a kid at that point. A talented kid but still not as strong as he would be later.
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Old 04-23-2013, 01:16 AM   #24
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Default Re: Benitez-Duran at 140

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Originally Posted by ETM View Post
Tough style for Duran but I think at that stage of their careers Duran would have been too strong for Benitez.

Roberto Duran was so much quicker in the mid 70s than he was at 154lbs. His hands were faster and he threw more punches and created more openings than he did later on where he plodded a lot more.

I think Benitez would have success and win some rounds probably early but I think Duran breaks through and stops him mid to late. Remember Wilfredo Benitez was a kid at that point. A talented kid but still not as strong as he would be later.
I do agree. I think that 154 might have been when everything came together for him. I even think he would have beaten Leonard in 1982 at this weight. Fighting Hearns is was a matter of Hearns being just as quick and with a longer reach, Tommy could control more of the rounds, but Hearns didn't come close to knocking him out or even landing clean.
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Old 04-23-2013, 05:43 PM   #25
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Default Re: Benitez-Duran at 140

Maybe Duran could have used his experance to take advantage of a less experanced Benitez. However as young as he was Benitez was way a head of the curve in terms of not only experance, but also boxing skills and IQ. If the fight goes the whole 15, I like benitez to have won enough rounds to get the win.
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