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Old 07-18-2007, 12:09 PM   #31
conditioner101
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Default Re: ** Emanuel Stewart and "Kronk-izing" a boxer"

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You don't have to revisit Kermit Cintron's resume for me, I been following his career since the beginning , so anything that you may want to say about him, I already know…Sure they did a greet job with a guy that was a College level Wrestler, with mayor strength, mobility and understanding of contact sports and very competitive, slimmed him down to a good boxing weight, showing very good technical knowledge on how maximize the assets of a potential boxer to be….Kermit was not a chump that walk in from the street, he was a basified wrestler and athlete…..Now no doubt that Kauffman had great credential in the amateurs and very good resume, but that is Amateur and sure his team did a great job with Kermit, plus the period after the Margo fight and after we don’t know what was happening between Kermit and his people…in all honesty…I don’t know the details on how and why Emanuel was brought in, but obviously the manager of Kermit taught he needed to be settle and move forward after the Margo debacle, and one thing that Emanuel brings to the table is immediate credibility as a proven PROFESSIONAL trainer….Kauffman did as good a he could as I mention , and after the Margo lost…well Kermit was damage goods, and I don’t know if Kauffman had the ability to pick him up, infuse confidence and move forward….regardless how good Kauffman was as a basified Amateur trainer and professional trainer for Kermit, he is no Emanuel Stewart, I am talking about the aura of Stewart and Kronk, which start healing the psychic of any boxer…and that was the first order of work to be done with Kermit after the Margo fight…his psychic…..and as a trainer, I am telling you can deal with the technical issues and skills but what Kermit needed was confidence, rebuilding a boxer from the ground up after a catastrophic defeat like the Margo one, is not easy...
So what you are saying is that Kauffman was successful with Cintron because Cintron was a good high school wrestler? If thats the case boxing trainers would be scouting high school wrestling teams for talent. Everything you say minimizes Kauffmans accomplishments. So far Steward is 3-0 with Kermit against unranked fighters. Big deal. Taking and already world class boxer and getting him a few wins over over unranked opponents is nothing to brag about.

He is no Emanuel Steward? SO WHAT! I don't deny that Steward is a knowledgeable trainer, but to minimize what Kauffman did is rediculous. By your logic Jermaine Talylor should be invincible now that the BOXING GOD known as Manny Steward is his trainer. LOL Taylor struggles with Jr welters, Welters, and Jr, Middleweights now.
Fact of the matter is Kauffman is every bit the trainer Steward is or better, and Kermit was a kid with great potential. Together they did something very special. Kermit is what he is because of the years of work and dedication that Kauffman and Pastore put into him. Cintron has one person and one person only to blame for the loss against Margarito. HIMSELF. Kermit is the one that chose to show up late on a daily basis for his workouts. Kermit is the one who decided to start listening to his girlfriends instructions on how he should prepare for the fight. Kermit is the one that decded to stop doing all the things in training that got him to where he is. Kermit is the one that quit sparring sessions the moment they became difficult. Kermit is the one that decided he didn't wanna train hard.
There is alot I know about Kermit that you do not. I know because I train out of the same gym, and I was in many of Kermits camps. What I am saying is facts. You know what you read on the internet. The experiences I am talking about are experiences I lived.
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Old 07-18-2007, 12:34 PM   #32
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Default Re: ** Emanuel Stewart and "Kronk-izing" a boxer"

It works with everyone but horrible JT.
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Old 07-18-2007, 01:02 PM   #33
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Default Re: ** Emanuel Stewart and "Kronk-izing" a boxer"

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So what you are saying is that Kauffman was successful with Cintron because Cintron was a good high school wrestler? If thats the case boxing trainers would be scouting high school wrestling teams for talent. Everything you say minimizes Kauffmans accomplishments. So far Steward is 3-0 with Kermit against unranked fighters. Big deal. Taking and already world class boxer and getting him a few wins over over unranked opponents is nothing to brag about.

He is no Emanuel Steward? SO WHAT! I don't deny that Steward is a knowledgeable trainer, but to minimize what Kauffman did is rediculous. By your logic Jermaine Talylor should be invincible now that the BOXING GOD known as Manny Steward is his trainer. LOL Taylor struggles with Jr welters, Welters, and Jr, Middleweights now.
Fact of the matter is Kauffman is every bit the trainer Steward is or better, and Kermit was a kid with great potential. Together they did something very special. Kermit is what he is because of the years of work and dedication that Kauffman and Pastore put into him. Cintron has one person and one person only to blame for the loss against Margarito. HIMSELF. Kermit is the one that chose to show up late on a daily basis for his workouts. Kermit is the one who decided to start listening to his girlfriends instructions on how he should prepare for the fight. Kermit is the one that decded to stop doing all the things in training that got him to where he is. Kermit is the one that quit sparring sessions the moment they became difficult. Kermit is the one that decided he didn't wanna train hard.
There is alot I know about Kermit that you do not. I know because I train out of the same gym, and I was in many of Kermits camps. What I am saying is facts. You know what you read on the internet. The experiences I am talking about are experiences I lived.
I am not minimizing anything, I could easily say that you are overhyping Kauffman...

All I am saying is this, plain and simple, someone made the desicion and Kermiot was Ok with it....Kauffman did wonders with Kermit, but it it time to move to the next level...that all.....if he beat Margo in the near future and potentially hold 2 parts of the WW belts at one point, I am sure that he will fill that Emanuel did his job....as you know,the percention of the boxers to his trainer is critical, if he perceives that he is improving and becoming a better boxer, even if he isn;t, then he is doing his job....and you know that...
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Old 07-18-2007, 01:13 PM   #34
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Default Re: ** Emanuel Stewart and "Kronk-izing" a boxer"

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I am not minimizing anything, I could easily say that you are overhyping Kauffman...

All I am saying is this, plain and simple, someone made the desicion and Kermiot was Ok with it....Kauffman did wonders with Kermit, but it it time to move to the next level...that all.....if he beat Margo in the near future and potentially hold 2 parts of the WW belts at one point, I am sure that he will fill that Emanuel did his job....as you know,the percention of the boxers to his trainer is critical, if he perceives that he is improving and becoming a better boxer, even if he isn;t, then he is doing his job....and you know that...
I'm not hyping Marshall, what I am saying is purely factual. And once again you ignore basically everything I stated. It seems logical to me that a trainer that takes a guy that never boxed a day in his life and trains that guy from amateur to 24-0 22 ko's I think its safe to say that that trainer is exceptional. If a trainer takes a kid from never having boxed all the way to mutliple national and international amateur titles and #1 in the country I think its safe to say that trainer is is exceptional.
GO BACK AND REWATCH CINTRON VS ORTIZ & CINTRON VS REID. I think you will see some of the things I mean.
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Old 07-18-2007, 02:47 PM   #35
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Default Re: ** Emanuel Stewart and "Kronk-izing" a boxer"

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I'm not hyping Marshall, what I am saying is purely factual. And once again you ignore basically everything I stated. It seems logical to me that a trainer that takes a guy that never boxed a day in his life and trains that guy from amateur to 24-0 22 ko's I think its safe to say that that trainer is exceptional. If a trainer takes a kid from never having boxed all the way to mutliple national and international amateur titles and #1 in the country I think its safe to say that trainer is is exceptional.
GO BACK AND REWATCH CINTRON VS ORTIZ & CINTRON VS REID. I think you will see some of the things I mean.
I own most of Kermit fights, and we are in agreement that he did a great job, what you don’t want to understand is that when the decision was made, by whom ever, Kermit was very Ok with it and in fact looking at the way he has developed even further in the last 3 fights, Emanuel is doing him good, he seems far more confident…which on the Reid fight, that confidence was not as evident as when he fought Estrada or Mathysse…given the competition that Kermit face up to Reid far exceeded the resume of his last 3 fights, but Mathysse was no chump, a hard hitting opponent that gave Paul Williams all he could handle for the better part of 9 rounds to succumb at the end on punches volume accumulation…so the fact that Kermit basically dismantle this cat in less that 2 , at least in my book, it is impressive..

...and BTW..I enjoy the debating when it is with someone that is about boxing ....so keep it on...we will get somewhere soon
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Old 07-18-2007, 04:41 PM   #36
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Default Re: ** Emanuel Stewart and "Kronk-izing" a boxer"

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Thats the same thing everyone said about Mcgirt and Gatti teaming up. All that was was good matchmaking. Terron Millet was already shot. Who did Gatti beat of note while under the tutelage of Mcgirt. Not to mention he has probably the worst record of any trainer right now.
As for Manny. David Estrada, Mark Suarez, and Mathysse? Cintron was close to losing against Estrada. He was obviously hurt several times. Who the heck is Suarez anyway, and who of note did Marthysse ever beat.
And, what about the "great" Jermaine Taylor? He left the team that made him and went to Manny Steward and has obviously been regressing ever since. He lost to Winky in my opinion. Granted Winky is exceptional, but still a Jr middle. Spinks beat him in my opinion and Spinks started at 140 and was ko'd by Zab and dropped how many times by Mayorga? Kassim Ouma (another jr middle) pushed him to the limit. Taylor had a stelar amateur career, was an Olympian, and was on a role under Pat Burns. Am I wrong? What has "MANNY THE GREAT" done with him.
Is Manny a bad trainer? Of course not, but he does not deserve the credit that is being heaped on him for Cintron. Marshall Kauffman and Joe Pastore made Cintron.
How can you not commend to guys that took a 19 yr old wrestler thaqt never boxed, and got him to 24-0 with 22 kos in under 5 years both amateur and pro career combined. He was ko'ing guys that were never knocked out. Dropping guys that were never dropped. Scarcely lost a round. Come on guys. Give credit where credit is due. Those guys deserve real recognition for what they did with Cintron. You could write a text book on how he was trained and brought along through his career. Like I said earlier. Go rewatch Cintron vs Ortiiz and Cintron vs Reid. Those fights were a thing of beauty. Cintron boxed flawlessly against Ortiz (Ring Magazine Top 10 at the time), and scored a more brutal ko against Ortiz than he did Mathysse. As for Reid... this is the Reid that was undefeated in all fights at 147 but one. Decision loss to Andrew Lewis. He was just as big, strong, and hard punching as Cintron. He had everything it took to push Kermit hard. Harder than anyone has to this point, and yet Kermit dominated him. Didn't lose one round, scored two knockdowns, and held Reid to an abismal connect %. Look at Cintron punch variety, his jab, his defense, his ring generalship(the constant movement to his right to avoid reids right hand) his amazing physique and condition, and what was at that time a granite chin. Those two fights are what made me a believer in Cintron.
Stil sour about Cintron moving on with a new team? I understand that.. but you seem to forget that he's 24-1-0 (22 KOs) with that lost looking really bad.

And the fact that he didn't look all too good defensively against Teddy Reid who hits in slow-motion seems to have slipped your mind. He never beat a fighter as good as David Estrada with his ex-team, let alone Mark Suarez. I'll give you that Walter Mathysse was kind of a showcase fight but he did get rid of Mathysse a lot more explosively than P-Will did.

Sour grapes.. is all I read in your text man.
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Old 07-18-2007, 05:51 PM   #37
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Stil sour about Cintron moving on with a new team? I understand that.. but you seem to forget that he's 24-1-0 (22 KOs) with that lost looking really bad.

And the fact that he didn't look all too good defensively against Teddy Reid who hits in slow-motion seems to have slipped your mind. He never beat a fighter as good as David Estrada with his ex-team, let alone Mark Suarez. I'll give you that Walter Mathysse was kind of a showcase fight but he did get rid of Mathysse a lot more explosively than P-Will did.

Sour grapes.. is all I read in your text man.
Well my insight to Cintron is from the inside. Not based on what I saw on TV. The facts I stated are just that... FACTS! Kermit didn't look good defensively against Reid???? Check compubox. Reids connect % was below 20% which means he landed less than 1 out of every 5 punches he threw, including the last three completed rounds where Reid threw over 100 punches a round. There was one round where Reids connects were in the single digits. As for the fight with Ortiz there were 2-3 rounds where Ortizs' connected in the single digits.
As for nobody on Kermits resume was as good as Suarez or Estrada? Thats rediculous. Both Reid and Ortiz were RING MAGAZINE rated top 10 guys at the time. Look at the guys they fought as well. Much more accomplished guys on there resumes than on the resumes of Estrada and Suarez. Niether Estrada or Suarez ever craked the Rings top 10.
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Old 07-18-2007, 05:54 PM   #38
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Default Re: ** Emanuel Stewart and "Kronk-izing" a boxer"

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Well my insight to Cintron is from the inside. Not based on what I saw on TV. The facts I stated are just that... FACTS! Kermit didn't look good defensively against Reid???? Check compubox. Reids connect % was below 20% which means he landed less than 1 out of every 5 punches he threw, including the last three completed rounds where Reid threw over 100 punches a round. There was one round where Reids connects were in the single digits. As for the fight with Ortiz there were 2-3 rounds where Ortizs' connected in the single digits.
As for nobody on Kermits resume was as good as Suarez or Estrada? Thats rediculous. Both Reid and Ortiz were RING MAGAZINE rated top 10 guys at the time. Look at the guys they fought as well. Much more accomplished guys on there resumes than on the resumes of Estrada and Suarez. Niether Estrada or Suarez ever craked the Rings top 10.
Again ...who ever made the desicion...Kermit didn;t complaint....and he took Emanuel like a fish on water...not like Jermain who is fighting Emanuel and recented DiBella changing trainers on him....actually a very good analogy of the two...
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Old 07-18-2007, 08:28 PM   #39
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Default Re: ** Emanuel Stewart and "Kronk-izing" a boxer"

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Again ...who ever made the desicion...Kermit didn;t complaint....and he took Emanuel like a fish on water...not like Jermain who is fighting Emanuel and recented DiBella changing trainers on him....actually a very good analogy of the two...
If you are a trainer then I fail to see why you don't recognize the following. When a fighter loses they very often look to place the blame somewhere else. Its never there fault, its always someone elses fault as to why they lost. 9 out of ten times its easiest to blame the trainer. Trainers are also the easiest to remove and replace. No contracts. There were no problems in the way Kermit was trained or managed, the problems were within Kermit himself. In his lack of character. Yeah he accepted the decision of his girlfriend to leave and change trainers. It was easier to blame the team then to man up and say I trained poorly for the fight. I didn't listen to Marshall and follow the game plan. I paid more attention to my girlfriend than I did my boxing career. He simply turned his back on and blamed the people who were responsible for his success.
The same lack of character he shows in his personal life showed up in his fight with Margarito, and it will show up again. As I said before I am not saying Manny is a bad trainer, but he is getting far to much credit for Kermits success. Kauffman and Pastore made Cintron what he is. Lets see what happens when Kermit fights someone who challenges him in the manner Tedy Reid and Margarito did. He will fold. Its in his nature!

Last edited by Bart; 03-14-2006 at 08:19 PM.
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Old 07-19-2007, 10:41 AM   #40
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Default Re: ** Emanuel Stewart and "Kronk-izing" a boxer"

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If you are a trainer then I fail to see why you don't recognize the following. When a fighter loses they very often look to place the blame somewhere else. Its never there fault, its always someone elses fault as to why they lost. 9 out of ten times its easiest to blame the trainer. Trainers are also the easiest to remove and replace. No contracts. There were no problems in the way Kermit was trained or managed, the problems were within Kermit himself. In his lack of character. Yeah he accepted the decision of his girlfriend to leave and change trainers. It was easier to blame the team then to man up and say I trained poorly for the fight. I didn't listen to Marshall and follow the game plan. I paid more attention to my girlfriend than I did my boxing career. He simply turned his back on and blamed the people who were responsible for his success.
The same lack of character he shows in his personal life showed up in his fight with Margarito, and it will show up again. As I said before I am not saying Manny is a bad trainer, but he is getting far to much credit for Kermits success. Kauffman and Pastore made Cintron what he is. Lets see what happens when Kermit fights someone who challenges him in the manner Tedy Reid and Margarito did. He will fold. Its in his nature!
If you have that kind of inside information on Kermit, then you know far more than I ,therefore, then you had your hand on the pulse and see what happend....Regarding the Reid fight, we are both in agreement that he seemed extremelly perturbe about Reid all during the fight......we will see what happened ..you could easily be forth telling the future..again you ahve some interesting inside information that I didn't

BTW, when I train my fighter, I start from the bottom up, and the issue of responsability to themself before anyone else....
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Old 07-19-2007, 07:10 PM   #41
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Default Re: ** Emanuel Stewart and "Kronk-izing" a boxer"

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If you have that kind of inside information on Kermit, then you know far more than I ,therefore, then you had your hand on the pulse and see what happend....Regarding the Reid fight, we are both in agreement that he seemed extremelly perturbe about Reid all during the fight......we will see what happened ..you could easily be forth telling the future..again you ahve some interesting inside information that I didn't

BTW, when I train my fighter, I start from the bottom up, and the issue of responsability to themself before anyone else....
Please don't get the wrong impression. I am not trying to be argumentative. I am not knocking Manny as a trainer. I am just tired of hearing people talk as though Manny made Kermit. Kauffman and Pastore made Kermit. They taught him everything he knows. I watched as the hours or time they invested turned into days turned into weeks turned into months turned into years. I saw the day to day progression. I watched as month after month he got better n better. I watched as sparring partner after sparring partner got dismantled or quit. I watched as Kermit began to take everything he waslearning and put it all together. I watched as each and every punch he threw became better and better.r I saw fights where he would buckles a guys legs with his jab. KO's from left hooks. KO's from right hands. KO's from uppercuts. I was at the gym where Pastore ran Kermit through his strength and conditioning drills. I was the first day he began his weight training and he could only bench 95 pounds for 5 reps, I was also there in camp for Teddy Reid when Kermit was benching 245 for 5 reps while still weighing the same he did when he began his pro career. I watched his squat climb from 135 for 5 reps to 315 for 5 reps. I watched his strength go up from weeks to week without ever gaining weight. A testament to Pastore. I went along as they drove him all over PA, NY,NJ,and VA for sparring. Pastore took care of every expense in Kermits life. All Kermit had to do was train, eat, sleep, and fight. Everything outside those things was taken care of. Kermit lived with Pastore for 3 years. EXPENSE FREE. I could go on and on.
You might wonder "how does he know all this?" Well, I will tell you. I train in the same gym. Sparred tons of rounds with Kermit. I spent alot of time listening to Kermit praise Marshall and Joe for everything they did for him. How he would be with them forever. Marshall and Kerm were like father n son, and Joe n Kerm were like brothers. The reason there relationship fell apart can be summed up in two words. MARIA ROBERTS. She came on the scene and immediately started telling Kermit he no longer needed them. That they didn't deserve there percentages. That he should fire them. This went on through the Margarito camp, and after the fight thats exactly what he did.
As for the Reid fight... let me expain it like this. While Reid is not a world class boxer, he is a world class puncher. The whole gym was nervous about that fight. We had seen tape of Teddy sparring and KO'ing 2 heavyweights with one punch. Reid is the only WW I knew of that I thought could match Kermits physical strength and punching power. Fortunately Kermit trained liek a champion for that fight. He was strong, welll conditioned, and well school by Marshall as to how to beat Teddy.
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Old 07-19-2007, 07:58 PM   #42
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I heard a rumour through some grapevine or other that Emmanuel was talkin recently bout how it would only take Prince Naseem two months to get in fighting shape n that he is willing to help him. I also heard the Prince is in training and down past 140. Anyone got a gem of knowledge for an interested Yorkshireman?
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Old 07-20-2007, 10:29 AM   #43
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Default Re: ** Emanuel Stewart and "Kronk-izing" a boxer"

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Please don't get the wrong impression. I am not trying to be argumentative. I am not knocking Manny as a trainer. I am just tired of hearing people talk as though Manny made Kermit. Kauffman and Pastore made Kermit. They taught him everything he knows. I watched as the hours or time they invested turned into days turned into weeks turned into months turned into years. I saw the day to day progression. I watched as month after month he got better n better. I watched as sparring partner after sparring partner got dismantled or quit. I watched as Kermit began to take everything he waslearning and put it all together. I watched as each and every punch he threw became better and better.r I saw fights where he would buckles a guys legs with his jab. KO's from left hooks. KO's from right hands. KO's from uppercuts. I was at the gym where Pastore ran Kermit through his strength and conditioning drills. I was the first day he began his weight training and he could only bench 95 pounds for 5 reps, I was also there in camp for Teddy Reid when Kermit was benching 245 for 5 reps while still weighing the same he did when he began his pro career. I watched his squat climb from 135 for 5 reps to 315 for 5 reps. I watched his strength go up from weeks to week without ever gaining weight. A testament to Pastore. I went along as they drove him all over PA, NY,NJ,and VA for sparring. Pastore took care of every expense in Kermits life. All Kermit had to do was train, eat, sleep, and fight. Everything outside those things was taken care of. Kermit lived with Pastore for 3 years. EXPENSE FREE. I could go on and on.
You might wonder "how does he know all this?" Well, I will tell you. I train in the same gym. Sparred tons of rounds with Kermit. I spent alot of time listening to Kermit praise Marshall and Joe for everything they did for him. How he would be with them forever. Marshall and Kerm were like father n son, and Joe n Kerm were like brothers. The reason there relationship fell apart can be summed up in two words. MARIA ROBERTS. She came on the scene and immediately started telling Kermit he no longer needed them. That they didn't deserve there percentages. That he should fire them. This went on through the Margarito camp, and after the fight thats exactly what he did.
As for the Reid fight... let me expain it like this. While Reid is not a world class boxer, he is a world class puncher. The whole gym was nervous about that fight. We had seen tape of Teddy sparring and KO'ing 2 heavyweights with one punch. Reid is the only WW I knew of that I thought could match Kermits physical strength and punching power. Fortunately Kermit trained liek a champion for that fight. He was strong, welll conditioned, and well school by Marshall as to how to beat Teddy.
Those damn women.. they'll be the end of us.
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Old 07-20-2007, 02:46 PM   #44
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Those damn women.. they'll be the end of us.
amen brother!
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Old 07-20-2007, 03:51 PM   #45
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Kermit is scheduled to fight a keep-active type of fight on the Mayorga-Vargas undercard. If Mayorga was to win that bout it would be a good time to call him out.

I wonder if he'll defend his IBF title while at it.
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