Which of these 5 should make it into the Greatest Welterweight of AllTime Tournament? - Page 2

Senya13 · 07-21-2007, 01:45 PM

He beat which version of Robinson and at what weight? The one who was losing every second bout. Prime Robinson would have destroyed him in 3 rounds.
Joe Walcott was too strong for Basilio, it'd be an exciting match, but it is mostly likely that Basilio wouldn't hear the final bell.
Benitez was somewhat inconsistent, but if we are choosing his best version, he beats Basilio in 9 out of 10.
How many fights did Napoles lose on cuts, to estimate the possiblity that Basilio can repeat this deed?
Best version of welter Whitaker, I really don't see no chance of upset, 10 out of 10 for Sweat Pea, wide UD's. He had enough stamina to match the pace Basilio could offer to him.

Dempsey1238 · 07-21-2007, 02:17 PM

Robinson was still great, And this was in between the Fullmer wars. Robinson WOULD NOT destory Baliso. No one did it in 3 rounds. You are OVERRATEING Robinson in this regards. Baliso, like Jake and Gene, has that swarming style that aways gave Robinson trouble. I dont think its odd that most of Robinson's loses in his middleweight days happen vs Swarmers.

Senya13 · 07-21-2007, 02:38 PM

Robinson was some 8 years past his prime and above his best weight. Sugar Ray was still good, but far from what he had been in his prime.
Unlike LaMotta (probably natural light heavyweight), Basilio is not very big, and welterweight Robinson had outstanding punching power.

Dempsey1238 · 07-21-2007, 02:40 PM

But no one took Baliso out in 3 rounds. Carman had a chin of iron. Robinson is not going to walk in and blast Baliso out. In regards to Jake, they had the weight in on the DAY of the fight. So no way could Jake had gone all the way up to lightheavyweight by fight time. Its just 2 short of a period.

pjo479 · 07-21-2007, 02:49 PM

griffith for sure

Senya13 · 07-21-2007, 03:03 PM

Robinson was that good, to be able to take Basilio out quickly if he desided to do that.
I'm not saying LaMotta weighed as light heavyweight at fight time, it is that he cut weight to get under 160lb limit.

Dempsey1238 · 07-21-2007, 03:06 PM

Your asking Robinson to do something NO ONE did. Not Kid Galivan, Not Gene Fullmer, Not no one. And I though Balsio won the Galivan fight. Robinson is not going to take Balsio out in 3 rounds. You are RELLY undrrated Baliso in this regard.

Senya13 · 07-21-2007, 03:17 PM

Robinson was a master of angles and unorthodox moves in attack. Watching him at or near his prime, he reminds of Roy Jones in the way he was throwing his punches. Basilio wasn't a master of defense or defensively-oriented, to be able to avoid those punches.
Gavilan could be lazy at times, so the only reason why Basilio got that fight close was because of his workrate.

Dempsey1238 · 07-21-2007, 03:33 PM

Jones Jr may look impressive taking out the cop/boxer, but when he faces James Toney or Hopkins, World class boxers, he does not blown them out in 3 rounds. If Robinson is going to stop Balsio, I think he stop him in a thrilling fight in about ten or 11 rounds. Carman just has too good of a chin to be taking out that early.

Senya13 · 07-21-2007, 03:43 PM

You might need to talk to Jaclem on boxrec forum, I remember, when a matchup of Ray Robinson vs Ray Leonard was discussed, his arguments sounded persuading to me.
Jones took out Malinga with one punch, knocked down Sosa with one punch, knocked down Reggie Johnson with single punches, Mike McCallum knockdown, stopped Tate, Virgil Hill with one punch, etc. Didn't have that much raw power, but with his speed, unorthodox angles and punching technique, he scored single-punch KDs and KOs against fighters who were very tough.

McGrain · 07-21-2007, 06:54 PM

Burley would have beaten any of the guys on that list.

This is the last time i'll mention Burley in relation to this tournament, I promise.

frankwornank · 07-22-2007, 08:41 AM

CARMEN BASILIO WAS PROBABLY THE TOUGHEST POUND FOR POUND FIGHTER THAT EVER LIVED AND HE COMBINED THAT WITH TOP NOTCH ABILITY.

Dempsey1238 · 07-22-2007, 09:10 AM

Yes the guy was taking shots from Ike Williams. No way Robinson stops Balsio in 3 rounds.

Manassa · 07-22-2007, 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Senya13

Prime Robinson would have destroyed Basilio in 3 rounds.

Your opinions get more and more worthless with each passing day.

View Poll Results: Which of these 5 should make it into the Greatest Welterweight of AllTime Tournament?
Ted "Kid" Lewis	2	7.14%
Emile Griffith	18	64.29%
Oscar de la Hoya	5	17.86%
Carmen Basilio	15	53.57%
Jack Britton	0	0%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 28. You may not vote on this poll

07-21-2007, 01:45 PM	#16
Senya13 Belt holder ESB Addict Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Russia Posts: 3,339 vCash: 1210	Re: Which of these 5 should make it into the Greatest Welterweight of AllTime Tournament? He beat which version of Robinson and at what weight? The one who was losing every second bout. Prime Robinson would have destroyed him in 3 rounds. Joe Walcott was too strong for Basilio, it'd be an exciting match, but it is mostly likely that Basilio wouldn't hear the final bell. Benitez was somewhat inconsistent, but if we are choosing his best version, he beats Basilio in 9 out of 10. How many fights did Napoles lose on cuts, to estimate the possiblity that Basilio can repeat this deed? Best version of welter Whitaker, I really don't see no chance of upset, 10 out of 10 for Sweat Pea, wide UD's. He had enough stamina to match the pace Basilio could offer to him.
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07-21-2007, 02:17 PM	#17
Dempsey1238 Belt holder ESB Addict Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 4,956 vCash: 1000	Re: Which of these 5 should make it into the Greatest Welterweight of AllTime Tournament? Robinson was still great, And this was in between the Fullmer wars. Robinson WOULD NOT destory Baliso. No one did it in 3 rounds. You are OVERRATEING Robinson in this regards. Baliso, like Jake and Gene, has that swarming style that aways gave Robinson trouble. I dont think its odd that most of Robinson's loses in his middleweight days happen vs Swarmers.
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07-21-2007, 02:38 PM	#18
Senya13 Belt holder ESB Addict Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Russia Posts: 3,339 vCash: 1210	Re: Which of these 5 should make it into the Greatest Welterweight of AllTime Tournament? Robinson was some 8 years past his prime and above his best weight. Sugar Ray was still good, but far from what he had been in his prime. Unlike LaMotta (probably natural light heavyweight), Basilio is not very big, and welterweight Robinson had outstanding punching power.
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07-21-2007, 02:40 PM	#19
Dempsey1238 Belt holder ESB Addict Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 4,956 vCash: 1000	Re: Which of these 5 should make it into the Greatest Welterweight of AllTime Tournament? But no one took Baliso out in 3 rounds. Carman had a chin of iron. Robinson is not going to walk in and blast Baliso out. In regards to Jake, they had the weight in on the DAY of the fight. So no way could Jake had gone all the way up to lightheavyweight by fight time. Its just 2 short of a period.
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07-21-2007, 02:49 PM	#20
pjo479 brooklyn brawler ESB Jr Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 235 vCash: 1000	Re: Which of these 5 should make it into the Greatest Welterweight of AllTime Tournament? griffith for sure
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07-21-2007, 03:03 PM	#21
Senya13 Belt holder ESB Addict Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Russia Posts: 3,339 vCash: 1210	Re: Which of these 5 should make it into the Greatest Welterweight of AllTime Tournament? Robinson was that good, to be able to take Basilio out quickly if he desided to do that. I'm not saying LaMotta weighed as light heavyweight at fight time, it is that he cut weight to get under 160lb limit.
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07-21-2007, 03:06 PM	#22
Dempsey1238 Belt holder ESB Addict Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 4,956 vCash: 1000	Re: Which of these 5 should make it into the Greatest Welterweight of AllTime Tournament? Your asking Robinson to do something NO ONE did. Not Kid Galivan, Not Gene Fullmer, Not no one. And I though Balsio won the Galivan fight. Robinson is not going to take Balsio out in 3 rounds. You are RELLY undrrated Baliso in this regard.
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07-21-2007, 03:17 PM	#23
Senya13 Belt holder ESB Addict Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Russia Posts: 3,339 vCash: 1210	Re: Which of these 5 should make it into the Greatest Welterweight of AllTime Tournament? Robinson was a master of angles and unorthodox moves in attack. Watching him at or near his prime, he reminds of Roy Jones in the way he was throwing his punches. Basilio wasn't a master of defense or defensively-oriented, to be able to avoid those punches. Gavilan could be lazy at times, so the only reason why Basilio got that fight close was because of his workrate.
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07-21-2007, 03:33 PM	#24
Dempsey1238 Belt holder ESB Addict Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 4,956 vCash: 1000	Re: Which of these 5 should make it into the Greatest Welterweight of AllTime Tournament? Jones Jr may look impressive taking out the cop/boxer, but when he faces James Toney or Hopkins, World class boxers, he does not blown them out in 3 rounds. If Robinson is going to stop Balsio, I think he stop him in a thrilling fight in about ten or 11 rounds. Carman just has too good of a chin to be taking out that early.
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07-21-2007, 03:43 PM	#25
Senya13 Belt holder ESB Addict Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Russia Posts: 3,339 vCash: 1210	Re: Which of these 5 should make it into the Greatest Welterweight of AllTime Tournament? You might need to talk to Jaclem on boxrec forum, I remember, when a matchup of Ray Robinson vs Ray Leonard was discussed, his arguments sounded persuading to me. Jones took out Malinga with one punch, knocked down Sosa with one punch, knocked down Reggie Johnson with single punches, Mike McCallum knockdown, stopped Tate, Virgil Hill with one punch, etc. Didn't have that much raw power, but with his speed, unorthodox angles and punching technique, he scored single-punch KDs and KOs against fighters who were very tough.
Top

07-21-2007, 06:54 PM	#26
McGrain Diamond Dog East Side VIP Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 34,759 vCash: 1000	Re: Which of these 5 should make it into the Greatest Welterweight of AllTime Tournament? Burley would have beaten any of the guys on that list. This is the last time i'll mention Burley in relation to this tournament, I promise.
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07-22-2007, 08:41 AM	#27
frankwornank Journeyman ESB Jr Member Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 259 vCash: 1000	Re: Which of these 5 should make it into the Greatest Welterweight of AllTime Tournament? CARMEN BASILIO WAS PROBABLY THE TOUGHEST POUND FOR POUND FIGHTER THAT EVER LIVED AND HE COMBINED THAT WITH TOP NOTCH ABILITY.
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07-22-2007, 09:10 AM	#28
Dempsey1238 Belt holder ESB Addict Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 4,956 vCash: 1000	Re: Which of these 5 should make it into the Greatest Welterweight of AllTime Tournament? Yes the guy was taking shots from Ike Williams. No way Robinson stops Balsio in 3 rounds.
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