Rank the best fighters Ali beat.

[McGrain]

Originally Posted by Sonny's jab

My own list :

1. (tie) Frazier (2 or 3)
1. (tie) Foreman
3. Norton (2)
4. Quarry
5. Patterson (2)
6. Ellis
7. Liston (1 - *pathetic performance by Sonny)
8. Young
9. Lyle
10. Bonavena
11. Terrell
12. Folley
13. Shavers
14. Chuvalo (1)

Regardless of what you think of the "why", do you really think that the Liston who arrived in the ring was better, more difficult to beat than Terrell etc.?

I think you underate the Terrell win in general. Though Ali never looks like using, he was at his absolute peak for that fight. Put any of those guys in with him on that evening and they would have dipped on this list, no?

Patterson below Quarry?

[ChrisPontius]

I'm suprised by how low many people think of Young.


He has a win over Foreman who is top3 on these lists, he made a very close fight with Ali (should've won), should've gotten the nod over Shavers, beat Lyle who also makes it on some lists here and should've gotten the decision over Norton who also ranks high on most lists here.

[Bummy Davis]

Originally Posted by ChrisPontius

I'm suprised by how low many people think of Young.


He has a win over Foreman who is top3 on these lists, he made a very close fight with Ali (should've won), should've gotten the nod over Shavers, beat Lyle who also makes it on some lists here and should've gotten the decision over Norton who also ranks high on most lists here.

I thought Young should be higher but I counted him as beating Ali, I thought we were rated Ali's wins based on how impressive, Young was up there with Frazier and Foreman, maby #2 but the win Ali had over him rates low(because I count it as a loss for Ali or a poor win

Originally Posted by McGrain

Regardless of what you think of the "why", do you really think that the Liston who arrived in the ring was better, more difficult to beat than Terrell etc.?

No. You got me there. I just felt obliged to put Liston somewhere. To be fair to Ali, Liston did box a bit and wing a few punches in in their first fight. He landed some hard shots to the ribs, and I had him winning 2 or 3 of the 6 completed rounds, so he was doing some fighting (but not much).
Dropping him completely (as you did) would perhaps be wiser.

I think you underate the Terrell win in general. Though Ali never looks like using, he was at his absolute peak for that fight. Put any of those guys in with him on that evening and they would have dipped on this list, no?

I'm not rating the guys only on how they looked against Ali, because that would penalize Ali for performing at his best against the best.

Ernie Terrell never impressed me. He's okay, but not better than the men I put ahead of him.

Patterson below Quarry?

Quarry was better, IMO.
Especially considering Patterson's injury in the 1st fight, and his age in the 2nd.

[Sweet Science]

1. Liston I- Ali made him look bad, he would have beaten everyone else on this list.

2. Foreman - Crude but menacingly powerful and undefeated.

3. Frazier 2 and 3 (more so 3)- A true warrior gave Ali hell on all 3 occasions

5. Patterson II- Extremely skilled and lightining fast.

6. Norton 2 and 3- The bogeyman

7. Bonavena - Tough motherfucking son of a bitch. (pardon my french)

9. Foster - Excellent jabber, I know he wasn't a real heavyweight

10. Quarry II- Tough guy.

[Holmes' Jab]

Originally Posted by Sweet Science

1. Liston I- Ali made him look bad, he would have beaten everyone else on this list.

2. Foreman - Crude but menacingly powerful and undefeated.

3. Frazier 2 and 3 (more so 3)- A true warrior gave Ali hell on all 3 occasions

5. Patterson II- Extremely skilled and lightining fast.

6. Norton 2 and 3- The bogeyman

7. Bonavena - Tough motherfucking son of a bitch. (pardon my french)

9. Foster - Excellent jabber, I know he wasn't a real heavyweight

10. Quarry II- Tough guy.

Totally agree here.

[George W Hedge]

Originally Posted by ChrisPontius

1. Foreman
2. Liston
3. Frazier
4. Lubbers (sorry, i'm dutch)
5. Young
6. Quarry
7. Patterson
8. Norton (1976, even if it was a questionable win)
9. Lyle
10. Bonevena

Your top 3 are correct, no doubt.

Just 1 question.... why did you put norton of 1976 when ali beat norton much clearer in 1973... a better version of norton at that ?

[ChrisPontius]

Norton started boxing late and had little amature experience, picked it up in the Marines i think. In 1976, he was somewhat greater because he had a nice winning streak (including Quarry) and a lot of experience whereas in 1973, an out of shape Ali was his only win worth noting.

I ignored the fact that he probably should've lost the third fight with Ali, though. I just looked at who was best at the time Ali beat him, whether it was close, rightful or not.