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Old 06-09-2008, 12:52 PM   #31
McGrain
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Default Re: Jack Sharkey is one of the most technicaly complete of all the heavyweight champions

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Originally Posted by SuzieQ49
Guys like Harold Johnson, that was technical brilliance, he did everything textbook.
Very good pick.

How do you rate Juan Manuel Marquez in this department? How about Sonny Liston?
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Old 06-09-2008, 12:55 PM   #32
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Default Re: Jack Sharkey is one of the most technicaly complete of all the heavyweight champions

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Originally Posted by godking
Tyson Holyfield and Holmes all showed great technical skills.
Tyson is a good pick with certain caveat's attatched, Holyfield may be the definitive pick, Holmes is a good choice also.

Anyone up for throwing together a top 5 HW champs in terms of pure technical excellence?
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Old 06-09-2008, 01:25 PM   #33
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Default Re: Jack Sharkey is one of the most technicaly complete of all the heavyweight champions

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Originally Posted by McGrain
Very good pick.

How do you rate Juan Manuel Marquez in this department? How about Sonny Liston?
Sonny Liston is way up there. I find it amazing how many people overlook his technical aspect. He was by far the most scientific big man ever up until that point in time. In the previous eras, no big men fought quite like him from a technical standpoint. I think even in the later eras, while boxing fundamentals continued to develop liston was still the top of the crop. Sonny Listons jab(should I even need to explain?) was pure and simple exceptional he used it offensivley and defensivley. He threw it constantly too. His upperbody and head movement were fantastic, very rythmic like he was in a groove, it opened up a lot of doors for him, and hiding underneath that high gaurd of his, it made him a difficult wall to penetrate.



JMM? lol I am a big fan of pacman, so I am usually talking down JMM. but there is no denying his brilliance. From a pure boxing standpoint, he is one of the better technicians in history. There really are no flaws in his boxing game, to me at least. He can do pretty much everything good. I will get back to you more on him later.
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Old 06-09-2008, 01:33 PM   #34
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Default Re: Jack Sharkey is one of the most technicaly complete of all the heavyweight champions

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Originally Posted by SuzieQ49
Sonny Liston is way up there. I find it amazing how many people overlook his technical aspect. He was by far the most scientific big man ever up until that point in time. In the previous eras, no big men fought quite like him from a technical standpoint. I think even in the later eras, while boxing fundamentals continued to develop liston was still the top of the crop. Sonny Listons jab(should I even need to explain?) was pure and simple exceptional he used it offensivley and defensivley. He threw it constantly too. His upperbody and head movement were fantastic, very rythmic like he was in a groove, it opened up a lot of doors for him, and hiding underneath that high gaurd of his, it made him a difficult wall to penetrate.



JMM? lol I am a big fan of pacman, so I am usually talking down JMM. but there is no denying his brilliance. From a pure boxing standpoint, he is one of the better technicians in history. There really are no flaws in his boxing game, to me at least. He can do pretty much everything good. I will get back to you more on him later.

Here, we agree entirely.

Although I sometimes feel Marquez doesn't move his upper body/head nearly enough when fights get hard.
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Old 06-09-2008, 01:42 PM   #35
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Default Re: Jack Sharkey is one of the most technicaly complete of all the heavyweight champions

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Although I sometimes feel Marquez doesn't move his upper body/head nearly enough when fights get hard.

just like you said, when the fight gets hard. When I am in the ring sparring, and it gets hard, its like something shuts off in my head(you forget)....and the thing that turns on is adrenaline, Fear, will to survive......it because survival of the fittest. While its something for marquez to work on, any fighter thats fighting under hard circumstances of the fight, different instincts kick in, you lose your game plan and at times its very hard to adjust.
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Old 06-09-2008, 01:50 PM   #36
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Default Re: Jack Sharkey is one of the most technicaly complete of all the heavyweight champions

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Originally Posted by SuzieQ49
While its something for marquez to work on, any fighter thats fighting under hard circumstances of the fight, different instincts kick in, you lose your game plan and at times its very hard to adjust.
I always feel like the purpose of perfectly drilled technique is to keep that technique fimly in place when you need it most...you are right what you say, but in shows up in when Marquez fights, perhaps because everything else is done so close to perfect.

He may be close to done now anyway. Old for the division he's in, and Pacquioa was a tough fight for him (I had JMM winning it by a point).
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Old 06-09-2008, 01:56 PM   #37
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Default Re: Jack Sharkey is one of the most technicaly complete of all the heavyweight champions

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I always feel like the purpose of perfectly drilled technique is to keep that technique fimly in place when you need it most

It defintley is, however thats what makes boxing the most difficult sport because unlike other sports.....your getting punched in the head. Your getting hit hard, hurt/buzzed. when your knocked off your equilibrium...you cant focus you cant think, all you can do is go by your natural instincts. You can train all the techniques in the world, but when you get punched in the face, it changes everything.
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Old 06-09-2008, 02:12 PM   #38
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Default Re: Jack Sharkey is one of the most technicaly complete of all the heavyweight champions

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Originally Posted by SuzieQ49
You can train all the techniques in the world, but when you get punched in the face, it changes everything.
Aye, although maybe not the very best, like Louis in Schmeling I, basically fighting semi-conscious he holds punching form. Barrera is another good example.
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Old 06-09-2008, 02:25 PM   #39
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Default Re: Jack Sharkey is one of the most technicaly complete of all the heavyweight champions

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Originally Posted by McGrain
Aye, although maybe not the very best, like Louis in Schmeling I, basically fighting semi-conscious he holds punching form. Barrera is another good example.
Practise good technique 100,000s of times and use good technique all the time you fight and when your groggy you'll use good technique too.
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Old 06-09-2008, 05:27 PM   #40
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Default Re: Jack Sharkey is one of the most technicaly complete of all the heavyweight champions

Quote:
Originally Posted by McGrain
Tyson is a good pick with certain caveat's attatched, Holyfield may be the definitive pick, Holmes is a good choice also.

Anyone up for throwing together a top 5 HW champs in terms of pure technical excellence?
Top 5

at HW

1 Louis

2 Tyson

3 Holmes

4 Liston

5 Holyfield

2 and 3 are interchangable
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Old 06-09-2008, 06:41 PM   #41
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Default Re: Jack Sharkey is one of the most technicaly complete of all the heavyweight champions

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuzieQ49
Sonny Liston is way up there. I find it amazing how many people overlook his technical aspect. He was by far the most scientific big man ever up until that point in time. In the previous eras, no big men fought quite like him from a technical standpoint. I think even in the later eras, while boxing fundamentals continued to develop liston was still the top of the crop. Sonny Listons jab(should I even need to explain?) was pure and simple exceptional he used it offensivley and defensivley. He threw it constantly too. His upperbody and head movement were fantastic, very rythmic like he was in a groove, it opened up a lot of doors for him, and hiding underneath that high gaurd of his, it made him a difficult wall to penetrate.



JMM? lol I am a big fan of pacman, so I am usually talking down JMM. but there is no denying his brilliance. From a pure boxing standpoint, he is one of the better technicians in history. There really are no flaws in his boxing game, to me at least. He can do pretty much everything good. I will get back to you more on him later.
Liston is underated without a doubt ,but lets not get carried away Suzie,he had a fatal flaw as a fighter,as you are giving out lessons perhaps you can tell us what it was?
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Old 06-09-2008, 07:18 PM   #42
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Default Re: Jack Sharkey is one of the most technicaly complete of all the heavyweight champions

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Liston is underated without a doubt ,but lets not get carried away Suzie,he had a fatal flaw as a fighter,as you are giving out lessons perhaps you can tell us what it was?
Im just a beginner, I got many years left of boxing to learn. I would like to be a good fighter some day.
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Old 06-09-2008, 07:54 PM   #43
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Default Re: Jack Sharkey is one of the most technicaly complete of all the heavyweight champions

btw mcvey regarding harold johnson vs jersey joe walcott. Walcott scored a legit knockout victory over johnson. Johnson was floored in the 2nd round by walcotts punch and fell to the canvas injuring himself. it wasnt until after walcott floored and beat the **** out of harold johnson that johnson became injured.
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Old 06-10-2008, 05:20 AM   #44
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Default Re: Jack Sharkey is one of the most technicaly complete of all the heavyweight champions

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Originally Posted by SuzieQ49
Im just a beginner, I got many years left of boxing to learn. I would like to be a good fighter some day.
Not having a pop Suzie.Liston didnt cut off the ring he followed you around ,unlike his protege Foreman who had good ring geometry.
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Old 06-14-2008, 12:36 PM   #45
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Default Re: Jack Sharkey is one of the most technicaly complete of all the heavyweight champions

Joseph Zukauskas started boxing fairly late -he was about 21, I think and never had an amateur fight. He was a navy man who arrived for "liberty" in Boston and saw a fight club. He decided to go upstairs and see if he could fight because athletes in the navy could avoid hard duty. So he tells the manager he's had 39 fights and is offered a 4 rounder for $100. When he tells the guy his name, the guy says "go take a walk and come back with a new one.

So Zukauskas considers this on the streets of Boston and chooses "Jack" because he idolizes Dempsey, and then "Sharkey" after Tom Sharkey who was a sailor like himself.

I don't consider him a technical wizard, however, he was adaptable and solid. He was also witty as hell. When he fought Primo Carnera he says that he

"... fought him in what I assumed would be a normal stance, and I found out that when I go to lead, jab, my head would going back and forth just like they were making gloves in a facory, shoveling them out the window on me."

So, he made the adjustment and steps back a bit and counters outside of Primo's long shots... and wins. He also figured Dempsey out pretty well...

He admitted that he was a hothead. "You could never tell what I'd do," he remembered when old, "As a matter of fact, you proably know alot more about me than I know about myself, because half the time I didn't know what the hell I was doing anyway. If I got a bad decision I'd go ina tantrum, might look like I was crying. They called me crybaby. They called me "The Lispin Lith", the "Garrulous gob", "The Weeping Warrior", tack different titles on you. But it didn't bother me as long as I got the old paycheck."

For those who know Boston, MA, his bar was on Causeway Street I believe...
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