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Old 07-09-2008, 03:49 AM   #16
fists of fury
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Default Re: Tiger Ted Lowry gives Moore the nod as the hardest puncher he met

Most people I know.
Does anyone have the official scoring for this fight?
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Old 07-09-2008, 03:57 AM   #17
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Default Re: Tiger Ted Lowry gives Moore the nod as the hardest puncher he met

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Originally Posted by mcvey
Just ran through an old Ring magazine, inside was an article on Ted Lowry . Lowry who holds the distinction of being the only man to twice go the distance with Marciano ,stated that Archie Moore was the hardest hitter he faced,and that ,in his opinion a prime Moore would have beaten Marciano.The 5 foot 9 in Lowry who never scaled over 185 lbs was very respectful of Marciano,none the less he named Moore as his toughest opponent as well as the hardest hitting.
1. Of Lowry's opinion that a prime Moore would have beaten Marciano--Lowry fought a very green Marciano the first time and a still a little green Marciano the second time. Marciano probably improved quite a bit over the years. Moore, on the other hand, may have been close to the finished product when Lowry fought him. I am not surprised Lowry was more impressed with Moore.

2. I don't know how much weight to give fighters opinions on who punches hardest. Lowry, after all, survived Moore as well as Marciano. He did not survive Murray, Payne, and Matthews. Jack Kearns thought Marciano hit harder than anyone he had seen, including Dempsey. On the other hand, Don ****ell said the hardest puncher he faced was Johnny Barton, a lightheavy who scored 17 ko's in 61 fights and who did not stop ****ell. Well, ****ell is the guy who got hit. Still, I just find that hard to believe.
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Old 07-09-2008, 06:33 AM   #18
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Default Re: Tiger Ted Lowry gives Moore the nod as the hardest puncher he met

Personally I would take a man's word for it,after all he should know.Turpin stopped ****ell and ****ell stopped Farr ,does that mean that Turpin hit harder than Marciano? Or ****ell harder than Louis?
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Old 07-09-2008, 09:44 AM   #19
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Default Re: Tiger Ted Lowry gives Moore the nod as the hardest puncher he met

I tend to go by consensus opinion. The qualifier to always keep in mind is who hit one the hardest that the recipient of the punch remembers getting hit by.

Gene Fullmer never knew what hit him when SRR knocked him out. To this day, he knows what we know from the footage. Jimmy Ellis claimed not to be impressed by the power of Shavers, but did he ever know what hit him?

Jerry Quarry was concentrating so intently on swarming Shavers that he didn't even know he'd been hit until he saw the tape the next day. Mac Foster's power impressed him tremedously though, and he said so immediately after knocking Mac from the unbeaten ranks.

Does anybody know who Rocky considered to be the hardest puncher he was ever hit by? (Carmine Vingo?) Is it possible that Rocky was actually on the receiving end of the hardest punch ever delivered in a Marciano fight? (Specifically the counter right Moore dropped him with, which may have been the hardest blow Archie ever delivered.)

Moore himself said the first right Yvon Durelle decked him with was the hardest blow he ever took. Interestingly, immediately after losing to Marciano, he said, "He's the strongest man I've ever fought. I don't know that he's the hardest hitter, but he certainly hits hard enough." (Bottom line.)

Archie eluded the full force of Rocky's punches fairly well. The knockdowns Marciano produced on him were of an attrition variety, where we can see his torso heaving with exertion while on the floor. Durelle really nailed him though, with a right hand very reminiscent of the first one Max Baer floored Carnera with. Probably, Rocky was indeed a more consistently harder puncher, but I have no doubt that Durelle hit Moore harder than Marciano was able to.

So many of Earnie's opponents say he hit the hardest that I'm inclined to believe he truly is the impact kingpin. Nobody ever buckled Ali repeatedly the way Shavers did with his right.

One point I'd like to make about ****ell's mention of Johnny Barton has to do with the fact that many heavy hitters do not have hands which can withstand the stress of delivering repeated hard strikes. Hand problems are why Jimmy McLarnin had such an anemic knockout record despite a reputation as one of boxing's hardest punchers.
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Old 07-09-2008, 10:42 AM   #20
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Default Re: Tiger Ted Lowry gives Moore the nod as the hardest puncher he met

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Originally Posted by mcvey
Personally I would take a man's word for it,after all he should know.Turpin stopped ****ell and ****ell stopped Farr ,does that mean that Turpin hit harder than Marciano? Or ****ell harder than Louis?

I would take his word for it also. I emphasized that ****ell was the one getting hit. I just don't know how much weight to give it. Some opinions--Moore over Marciano, Shavers over Foreman, Firpo over Dempsey--are not beyond belief. On the other hand, what value is an opinion that someone who did not score many knockouts over ordinary competition or knock out top men at all is somehow a top echelon puncher. So many factors may come into play. ****ell was young when he fought Barton. Perhaps he was not as used to the shock of a hard punch as he was by the time he fought Aaron Wilson, Randy Turpin, or Marciano. I just don't know.
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Old 07-09-2008, 10:50 AM   #21
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Default Re: Tiger Ted Lowry gives Moore the nod as the hardest puncher he met

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lobotomy
I tend to go by consensus opinion. The qualifier to always keep in mind is who hit one the hardest that the recipient of the punch remembers getting hit by.

Gene Fullmer never knew what hit him when SRR knocked him out. To this day, he knows what we know from the footage. Jimmy Ellis claimed not to be impressed by the power of Shavers, but did he ever know what hit him?

Jerry Quarry was concentrating so intently on swarming Shavers that he didn't even know he'd been hit until he saw the tape the next day. Mac Foster's power impressed him tremedously though, and he said so immediately after knocking Mac from the unbeaten ranks.

Does anybody know who Rocky considered to be the hardest puncher he was ever hit by? (Carmine Vingo?) Is it possible that Rocky was actually on the receiving end of the hardest punch ever delivered in a Marciano fight? (Specifically the counter right Moore dropped him with, which may have been the hardest blow Archie ever delivered.)

Moore himself said the first right Yvon Durelle decked him with was the hardest blow he ever took. Interestingly, immediately after losing to Marciano, he said, "He's the strongest man I've ever fought. I don't know that he's the hardest hitter, but he certainly hits hard enough." (Bottom line.)

Archie eluded the full force of Rocky's punches fairly well. The knockdowns Marciano produced on him were of an attrition variety, where we can see his torso heaving with exertion while on the floor. Durelle really nailed him though, with a right hand very reminiscent of the first one Max Baer floored Carnera with. Probably, Rocky was indeed a more consistently harder puncher, but I have no doubt that Durelle hit Moore harder than Marciano was able to.

So many of Earnie's opponents say he hit the hardest that I'm inclined to believe he truly is the impact kingpin. Nobody ever buckled Ali repeatedly the way Shavers did with his right.

One point I'd like to make about ****ell's mention of Johnny Barton has to do with the fact that many heavy hitters do not have hands which can withstand the stress of delivering repeated hard strikes. Hand problems are why Jimmy McLarnin had such an anemic knockout record despite a reputation as one of boxing's hardest punchers.
Good post!
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Old 07-09-2008, 10:51 AM   #22
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Default Re: Tiger Ted Lowry gives Moore the nod as the hardest puncher he met

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Originally Posted by OLD FOGEY
I would take his word for it also. I emphasized that ****ell was the one getting hit. I just don't know how much weight to give it. Some opinions--Moore over Marciano, Shavers over Foreman, Firpo over Dempsey--are not beyond belief. On the other hand, what value is an opinion that someone who did not score many knockouts over ordinary competition or knock out top men at all is somehow a top echelon puncher. So many factors may come into play. ****ell was young when he fought Barton. Perhaps he was not as used to the shock of a hard punch as he was by the time he fought Aaron Wilson, Randy Turpin, or Marciano. I just don't know.
I wasn't making a point when I started the thread ,just thought it might be of interest. As you say who knows?
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Old 07-10-2008, 12:43 AM   #23
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Default Re: Tiger Ted Lowry gives Moore the nod as the hardest puncher he met

To pipe in here on the "credibility-of-testimony-about-who-hit-harder" thing that's come up here, let me point out that this testimony is sometimes conflicting from fighter to fighter; for example, Walcott, Beshore and Simmons (who was a sparring partner of Louis) all said that Marciano hit harder than Louis, but Rex Layne (who fought Marciano in a real fight and Louis in an exhibition) ranked Louis the harder hitter. Other such testimony is sometimes utterly unbelieveable, such as Oliver McCall's claim that Buster Douglas hit harder than Lennox Lewis and Mike Tyson (who he sparred with). This testimony is useful, but like most forms of testimony/opinion, I'd take it in context and not make it a be-all end-all.
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Old 07-10-2008, 06:04 AM   #24
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Default Re: Tiger Ted Lowry gives Moore the nod as the hardest puncher he met

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Originally Posted by Marciano Frazier
To pipe in here on the "credibility-of-testimony-about-who-hit-harder" thing that's come up here, let me point out that this testimony is sometimes conflicting from fighter to fighter; for example, Walcott, Beshore and Simmons (who was a sparring partner of Louis) all said that Marciano hit harder than Louis, but Rex Layne (who fought Marciano in a real fight and Louis in an exhibition) ranked Louis the harder hitter. Other such testimony is sometimes utterly unbelieveable, such as Oliver McCall's claim that Buster Douglas hit harder than Lennox Lewis and Mike Tyson (who he sparred with). This testimony is useful, but like most forms of testimony/opinion, I'd take it in context and not make it a be-all end-all.
Quite reasonable .It's just interesting to get the actual fighters views don't you think?
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Old 07-10-2008, 06:54 AM   #25
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Default Re: Tiger Ted Lowry gives Moore the nod as the hardest puncher he met

No doubt Archie Moore hit extremely hard, but I would pick Sam Langford as perhaps the hardest hitter of all-time p4p.
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Old 07-10-2008, 09:16 AM   #26
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Default Re: Tiger Ted Lowry gives Moore the nod as the hardest puncher he met

I dont think Rex Layne would rember the ko punch, as he was OUT, when compare to Joe Louis.
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Old 07-10-2008, 08:40 PM   #27
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Default Re: Tiger Ted Lowry gives Moore the nod as the hardest puncher he met

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Originally Posted by fists of fury
Quite staggering statistics when you think about it. Archie truly was one of a kind. And yet, didn't Charlie Burley give him a sound thrashing when they met? God, how good was Burley?

As for Lowry...well, I respect his opinion. After all, he did fight both Moore and Marciano.
Strange cat is Lowry though...he didn't make much of an impact in the division yet gave Marciano two stiff fights, and many, many observers felt he should have won the first fight.
Archie was a late bloomer and his best fights were between 175 ....up
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Old 07-10-2008, 10:11 PM   #28
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Default Re: Tiger Ted Lowry gives Moore the nod as the hardest puncher he met

Also remember Marciano was definitely on the downslide vs. Moore. His age, style and back problems had defused him quite a bit.
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