Joe Frazier in some interviews

[fists of fury]

I've heard the two have finally made peace. Is that official? Joe sure had some hate for Ali.

[thunder06]

joe was in bad shape at the end of round 14. i know that ali would have pulled whatever bit of strength he had left to answer the bell for the 15th and probably would have stopped frazier.

[My dinner with Conteh]

Originally Posted by mcvey

Do you really beleive ,if Frazier had answered the bell for the last round ,Ali wouldnt have got off his stool?

Some people believe what they want to believe.

Originally Posted by My dinner with Conteh

Some people believe what they want to believe.

Who believes that Ali wouldn't have come out for the 15th though ?

[My dinner with Conteh]

You insinuated that Ali was more likely to quit than Frazier, just because of some comment Ali may or may not have made.

Originally Posted by My dinner with Conteh

You insinuated that Ali was more likely to quit than Frazier, just because of some comment Ali may or may not have made.

It's reported that Ali was wanting to quit.
It looked to me as if Frazier was protesting Futch's decision.
(I can only go on what I see, hear and read.)

Dundee and Bundini would never have allowed Ali to quit anyway, so there's no suggestion (from me) that he wouldn't have come out for the 15th.

[My dinner with Conteh]

Originally Posted by Sonny's jab

It's reported that Ali was wanting to quit.
It looked to me as if Frazier was protesting Futch's decision.
(I can only go on what I see, hear and read.)

Dundee and Bundini would never have allowed Ali to quit anyway, so there's no suggestion (from me) that he wouldn't have come out for the 15th.

Ali quit? He didn't even want to quit after round 10 of the Holmes fight. Just more sensationalism from the Ali camp- just like the broken jaw probably happened after the second round. The Ali legend makes for good tales and ripping yarns.

[Street Lethal]

Originally Posted by thunder06

joe was in bad shape at the end of round 14. i know that ali would have pulled whatever bit of strength he had left to answer the bell for the 15th and probably would have stopped frazier.

I think thats what would hasve happened. Ali had been teeing off on Frazier's head.

[Duodenum]

Were Dundee, Pacheco, or Bundini ever quoted as stating that Ali said he wanted to quit before round 15 in Manila? At the end of round 14, Ali was actually knocking Frazier backwards with his punches. If there had been a round 15, Ali would have likely avenged Joe's knockdown of him in the FOTC, and forced Carlos Padilla to stop the contest long before those three minutes were up.

Ali wanted to quit in the first match with Liston, when his eyes were blinded (supposedly by Monsel's solution), but Dundee washed them out, reminded Ali, "This is for the big one Daddy-O!," and swatted Muhammad on the can as he got off his stool for the following round. I think Ali was simply embellishing the legend of Manila by claiming that he was ready to quit himself. They knew they had that match won, and Ali had already driven himself to a 15 round kayo win over Wepner earlier in the year, so he certainly had the capacity to do it again (as he nearly did yet another time to Earnie Shavers later). Ali is the definitive 15 round HW champion in boxing history.

Originally Posted by My dinner with Conteh

Ali quit? He didn't even want to quit after round 10 of the Holmes fight. Just more sensationalism from the Ali camp- just like the broken jaw probably happened after the second round. The Ali legend makes for good tales and ripping yarns.

The heat in Manila was a factor, and the pace was brutal. I'm sure he didn't feel the need to quit against Holmes. He could lay on the ropes getting smacked in the head all night, that's the way he was in those years. He was exerting any effort, just getting his brain pummelled. He'd practiced the same thing in sparring.

Yeah, you might be right, maybe everyone is making it up. It becomes part of the story, and the people who were there start believing they saw it/heard it themselves.
Apparently years after the Dempsey-Firpo fight there were dozens of reporters who swore blind Dempsey fell on top of their typewriter. Some of them probably weren't even in the stadium.

Originally Posted by Duodenum

Were Dundee, Pacheco, or Bundini ever quoted as stating that Ali said he wanted to quit before round 15 in Manila?

Wali Muhammad (aka Walter Youngblood) was in the Ali corner and he says, in Thomas Hauser's book on Ali, :

"After the fourteenth round, Ali came back to the corner and told us, "Cut 'em off". That's how tired he was. He wanted us to cut his gloves off. And Angelo ignored him. He started wiping Ali's face, getting him ready for the fifteenth round. We sponged him down, and I gave him a drink of sweetened water, honey and water, from a bottle I'd made up. I dont know if he'd have gone out for the last round or not. Ali's not a quitter, he'd never quit. But I'd never seen him exhausted like that before."

Pacheco says Ali was not going to quit, here in this interesting documentary of the fight :

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

[robert ungurean]

Originally Posted by garymcfall

Ive seen Frazier claim in a lot of interviews that he believes he won all three fights against Ali. How can he possibily think he won the Thrilla in Manilla or has he took too many punches to the head? It wasnt as if the fight was won on points, he was stopped.

The reasons Joe says he won all 3 fights is because of the condition Ali is in today compared to Joe's. Meaning Joe's punches have more to do with Ali's condition rather than Parkinson's.

[robert ungurean]

[quote=fists of fury]

Originally Posted by Sonny's jab

He thinks Eddie Futch shouldn't have stopped the 3rd fight, he wanted to come out for the 15th and argued with Eddie to allow him to.
quote]

There are probably 5 different (and all credible) versions of this story.
Eddie Futch in an interview with KO magazine stated that he told Joe he was going to stop the fight. Joe stood up, but then sat down again.

The interviewer said that it must have been hard for a proud warrior like Frazier to take, to which Futch replied that it was, but Joe knew that Eddie was right.

Joe did argue with Eddie about coming out in the last rd.
Matter of fact Joe never let the resentment go against Eddie.

[McGrain]

Originally Posted by robert ungurean

The reasons Joe says he won all 3 fights is because of the condition Ali is in today compared to Joe's. Meaning Joe's punches have more to do with Ali's condition rather than Parkinson's.

Frazier is on record saying he wants to bury Ali, he'll outlive him and that there. The ultimate f*ck you. Frazier is just not rational when it comes to Ali.

I sympathise.

Frazier really was blind for the 14th...Ali would have come out of that I have no doubt. I've reviewed my earlier resentment for Futch, I think he did the right thing.