Pascual Perez: Anyone seen his fight with Pone Kingpetch? How do you rate him?

[McGrain]

How do you rate him more generally? Is he a serios rival to Monzon for the affections of the Argentines?

He won the the world Flyweight title in 1954 by outpointing Yoshio Shirai, limited, maybe, but six inches taller and the job was done in Tokyo. Nice. He held onto the title for the rest of the decade, knocking out Shirai in seven rounds in the rematch (I always look upon such a result as the proof of what was taken from the losing man in the original fight, until I'm proven wrong). He then goes on a sort of a Monzon-like run, just "dealing" with whoever is placed in front of him, most emphatically Welshman Dai Dower - KO1 - in '57. Beat a lot of good fighters, including revenge over Yaoita, the first man to ever have beaten him in a previous non-title match. That was a ten-rounder, Perez then stopped him in 13 in the title match that followed. He then lost the title to Pone Kingpetch. No shame in that, Pone is a generally underated fighter for me.

Has anyone seen their fight?

Or any other footage of Pascual? I have NEVER seen him fight.

[mcvey]

Originally Posted by McGrain

How do you rate him more generally? Is he a serios rival to Monzon for the affections of the Argentines?

He won the the world Flyweight title in 1954 by outpointing Yoshio Shirai, limited, maybe, but six inches taller and the job was done in Tokyo. Nice. He held onto the title for the rest of the decade, knocking out Shirai in seven rounds in the rematch (I always look upon such a result as the proof of what was taken from the losing man in the original fight, until I'm proven wrong). He then goes on a sort of a Monzon-like run, just "dealing" with whoever is placed in front of him, most emphatically Welshman Dai Dower - KO1 - in '57. Beat a lot of good fighters, including revenge over Yaoita, the first man to ever have beaten him in a previous non-title match. That was a ten-rounder, Perez then stopped him in 13 in the title match that followed. He then lost the title to Pone Kingpetch. No shame in that, Pone is a generally underated fighter for me.

Has anyone seen their fight?

Or any other footage of Pascual? I have NEVER seen him fight.

Top 3 as a flyweight, very good fighter ,he ranks on a par with Monzon in his own division,imo.

[good right hand]

good topic,

im suprised that pone has not been inducted into the hof

[McGrain]

Originally Posted by mcvey

Top 3 as a flyweight, very good fighter ,he ranks on a par with Monzon in his own division,imo.

Yeah, I see parallels with Monzon, though I wouldn't rate him as highly pound for pound.

You really rate him I see.

[McGrain]

Originally Posted by good right hand

im suprised that pone has not been inducted into the hof

Seconded.

[the cobra]

I got Perez behind Wilde only when rating all-time flyweight. And definite top 50 and likely top 40 all-time P4P. I believe he had over 10 non-title fights durring his reign where both he and the opponent came in at or under the 112lbs limit, meaning they could have been counted as title fights. He had a rematch with Kingpetch, I believe Pone won again, but it may have been a draw (I'm not certain). I have never seen him fight, been trying to find some footage though for a while.

[Club Fighter]

Decent pitcher, loved the nose candy, tho. Unfortunately didn't get as many opportunities as Steve Howe (who also didn't mind the nose candy himself). Some may claim race played a significant role in this. I won't weigh in with an opinion although it appears awfully peculiar. It was many moons ago, tho, and it's best to let sleeping dogs lie. Between he and his brother, Melido, the two meanest Jheri Curls I've ever seen on a Dominican. Quote me.

[Sweet Pea]

Kingpetch was a tad overrated to me actually. Great long range boxer, but didn't fair well against pressure and got too many gifts. Ebihara was better.

[sweet_scientist]

Originally Posted by McGrain

How do you rate him more generally? Is he a serios rival to Monzon for the affections of the Argentines?

He won the the world Flyweight title in 1954 by outpointing Yoshio Shirai, limited, maybe, but six inches taller and the job was done in Tokyo. Nice. He held onto the title for the rest of the decade, knocking out Shirai in seven rounds in the rematch (I always look upon such a result as the proof of what was taken from the losing man in the original fight, until I'm proven wrong). He then goes on a sort of a Monzon-like run, just "dealing" with whoever is placed in front of him, most emphatically Welshman Dai Dower - KO1 - in '57. Beat a lot of good fighters, including revenge over Yaoita, the first man to ever have beaten him in a previous non-title match. That was a ten-rounder, Perez then stopped him in 13 in the title match that followed. He then lost the title to Pone Kingpetch. No shame in that, Pone is a generally underated fighter for me.

Has anyone seen their fight?

Or any other footage of Pascual? I have NEVER seen him fight.

Don't know if I'm best suited to comment here as I've mainly seen Perez fight near the tail end of his career (about 30 min. of the first Kingpetch fight, 12 min. of the Yaoita rematch, 3 min. of the Yonekura rematch). About the only thing I have on him in his prime is a minute of the Dower fight, from which not much can be gleaned. I am endeavouring to get the first and third Shirai fights and perhaps these will give me a better idea of Perez at his peak.

From what I have seen I can say that Perez loved to hook to the body and head with both hands and didn't have much time for jabs and straight punches. His philosophy was walk forward, throw hooks upstairs and downstairs with rapid speed and power, try to block punches with a tight guard and just outright outgut the opponent down the stretch.

He was incredibly strong, as can be seen from his first fight with Kingpetch in particular. Kingpetch boxed well in that fight, probably better than in any other fight I've seen of his, and was catching Perez with plenty of clean punches. He looked notably bigger than Perez, but Perez was walking through everything and was the general throughout, particularly in the final rounds where he roughed Kingpetch up and had him retreating quickly. (Thought the Kingpetch fight was close by the way, perhaps Kingpetch having the edge with his cleaner shots, and it was one of the few close fights I think were justified - the Ebihara and Harada rematches were NOT justified - and hence perhaps his exclusion from the HOF. Would probably still include him, but I'm not up in arms because he's not in there. But I digress....)

I think to beat Perez you need great stamina, excellent boxing skills and the ability to take an excellent punch. I don't see many flyweights standing toe to toe with him and coming out victorious. Perhaps a Wilde, perhaps a Villa, but not many others. Probably the fighting style best suited to beat him is the slickster type with high a work rate. A Miguel Canto type would do the trick I believe.

[natonic]

Originally Posted by Club Fighter

Decent pitcher, loved the nose candy, tho. Unfortunately didn't get as many opportunities as Steve Howe (who also didn't mind the nose candy himself). Some may claim race played a significant role in this. I won't weigh in with an opinion although it appears awfully peculiar. It was many moons ago, tho, and it's best to let sleeping dogs lie. Between he and his brother, Melido, the two meanest Jheri Curls I've ever seen on a Dominican. Quote me.

LMAO. Didn't THAT Pascual Perez get lost on the Atlanta beltway one time when he was the starting pitcher for the evening?

[McGrain]

Originally Posted by Sweet Pea

Kingpetch was a tad overrated to me actually.

Really? I mean if you opened a thread about him in general, I bet a lot of people would need to google him to find out who he is...that's pretty underated for a 3 time world champion, don't you think? You mean overated by folks who are getting into this history of the sport, they get over-excited by him? Overated like that?

As for pressure fighters, isn't Perez one?

You see these two wins as a little clouded - perhaps because Perez was past his prime? Do you agree with McVey that Perez is to be rated at the absolute sharp end for his weight class?

[McGrain]

Originally Posted by sweet_scientist

Don't know if I'm best suited to comment here as I've mainly seen Perez fight near the tail end of his career (about 30 min. of the first Kingpetch fight, 12 min. of the Yaoita rematch, 3 min. of the Yonekura rematch). About the only thing I have on him in his prime is a minute of the Dower fight, from which not much can be gleaned. I am endeavouring to get the first and third Shirai fights and perhaps these will give me a better idea of Perez at his peak.

From what I have seen I can say that Perez loved to hook to the body and head with both hands and didn't have much time for jabs and straight punches. His philosophy was walk forward, throw hooks upstairs and downstairs with rapid speed and power, try to block punches with a tight guard and just outright outgut the opponent down the stretch.

He was incredibly strong, as can be seen from his first fight with Kingpetch in particular. Kingpetch boxed well in that fight, probably better than in any other fight I've seen of his, and was catching Perez with plenty of clean punches. He looked notably bigger than Perez, but Perez was walking through everything and was the general throughout, particularly in the final rounds where he roughed Kingpetch up and had him retreating quickly. (Thought the Kingpetch fight was close by the way, perhaps Kingpetch having the edge with his cleaner shots, and it was one of the few close fights I think were justified - the Ebihara and Harada rematches were NOT justified - and hence perhaps his exclusion from the HOF. Would probably still include him, but I'm not up in arms because he's not in there. But I digress....)

I think to beat Perez you need great stamina, excellent boxing skills and the ability to take an excellent punch. I don't see many flyweights standing toe to toe with him and coming out victorious. Perhaps a Wilde, perhaps a Villa, but not many others. Probably the fighting style best suited to beat him is the slickster type with high a work rate. A Miguel Canto type would do the trick I believe.

Thanks for a cracking post.

[sweet_scientist]

Originally Posted by McGrain

Thanks for a cracking post.

Cheers dude.

I know RB has the first and third Shirai fights in his collection, and perhaps he can give us a better understanding of what Perez was like in his prime.

[Sweet Pea]

Originally Posted by McGrain

Really? I mean if you opened a thread about him in general, I bet a lot of people would need to google him to find out who he is...that's pretty underated for a 3 time world champion, don't you think? You mean overated by folks who are getting into this history of the sport, they get over-excited by him? Overated like that?

Yes, I mean overrated in that sense. I used to overrate him particularly before realizing that it was Ebihara that I underrated and Kingpetch that had gotten all the gift decisions(against Ebihara himself and Harada).

As for pressure fighters, isn't Perez one?

You see these two wins as a little clouded - perhaps because Perez was past his prime? Do you agree with McVey that Perez is to be rated at the absolute sharp end for his weight class?

I haven't seen the fights, so I can't judge how past his prime Perez was, nor do I know particularly how they played out, or how Perez fought during them. I do know that Harada and Ebihara gave him hell and put beatings on him when they applied the pressure. He just didn't seem to respond well at all.

[Sweet Pea]