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Old 08-07-2008, 07:22 AM   #16
sweet_scientist
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Default Re: Chavez v Whitaker - 1987 (135 lbs)

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Originally Posted by TBooze
Chavez on Rosario form is at his very best, he had nothing to motivate him in 1988 hence the lackluster wins over Aguilar and Ramirez.

Whitaker probably did not peak until 1990/91, but had a style to be super competitive against Chavez.

Whitaker would I suspect win the early rounds in a 1988 battle, but like Taylor (who was in better form than Whitaker at the time), Chavez would grind down Sweet Pea and be on top of him by the later middle rounds.

Then it would be just a case of if Sweet Pea could make it to the final bell, thus my picks either Chavez by late stoppage or comfortable points win.

Remember how good Chavez was in them days, and remember Whitaker was two/three years away from peaking.
Two of Whitaker's 3 peak performances came in 1989: Haugen and Ramirez II. They were performances of the highest order. His other peak performance was against Azumah Nelson in 1990. IMO, Whitaker could have beaten Chavez even as early as 1988. He was rediculously outclassing Ramirez in Paris before he broke his hand. And even with one hand, he still held his own against Ramirez. If he doesn't injure himself, Whitaker has the reflexes, the speed and the movement to give Chavez hell.

Furthermore, Whitaker was always better than Meldrick Taylor at avoiding punishment and he also always had a better inside game, so there's two reasons which immediately stand out for why he wouldn't merely be in survival mode or even more unlikely, stopped.
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Old 08-07-2008, 08:43 AM   #17
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Default Re: Chavez v Whitaker - 1987 (135 lbs)

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Originally Posted by sweet_scientist
Two of Whitaker's 3 peak performances came in 1989: Haugen and Ramirez II. They were performances of the highest order. His other peak performance was against Azumah Nelson in 1990. IMO, Whitaker could have beaten Chavez even as early as 1988. He was rediculously outclassing Ramirez in Paris before he broke his hand. And even with one hand, he still held his own against Ramirez. If he doesn't injure himself, Whitaker has the reflexes, the speed and the movement to give Chavez hell.

Furthermore, Whitaker was always better than Meldrick Taylor at avoiding punishment and he also always had a better inside game, so there's two reasons which immediately stand out for why he wouldn't merely be in survival mode or even more unlikely, stopped.
I know he was Ring fighter of the year in 89, but it was all too easy, he arguably did not even lose a round that year. But perhaps with hindsight his opposition was not as good as they first look, with Greg and in particular Ramirez both having seen better days.

1990 saw him beat Nelson, but IMO he put in a career performance against Pendelton. Freddie was on fire in that fight and rebounded strong after the fairly close lost, Whitaker had to be at his very best that night; Nazario was not a complete mug either.

By 1990 Whitaker beats Chavez at 135 and probably 140; but 88 was too early IMO.
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Old 08-07-2008, 10:00 AM   #18
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Default Re: Chavez v Whitaker - 1987 (135 lbs)

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Originally Posted by TBooze
I know he was Ring fighter of the year in 89, but it was all too easy, he arguably did not even lose a round that year. But perhaps with hindsight his opposition was not as good as they first look, with Greg and in particular Ramirez both having seen better days.

1990 saw him beat Nelson, but IMO he put in a career performance against Pendelton. Freddie was on fire in that fight and rebounded strong after the fairly close lost, Whitaker had to be at his very best that night; Nazario was not a complete mug either.

By 1990 Whitaker beats Chavez at 135 and probably 140; but 88 was too early IMO.
You're saying his fight with Pendleton was his best performance because he was able to beat a fighter who was otherwise known as a journeyman? That was a competitive fight, unlike his fights with guys like Haugen and Ramirez, much more dominant wins.
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Old 08-07-2008, 10:12 AM   #19
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Default Re: Chavez v Whitaker - 1987 (135 lbs)

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Originally Posted by TBooze
I know he was Ring fighter of the year in 89, but it was all too easy, he arguably did not even lose a round that year.
It was all too easy because he was all too good.

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But perhaps with hindsight his opposition was not as good as they first look, with Greg and in particular Ramirez both having seen better days.
Ramirez was on the way out, but Haugen was at the peak of his powers. He had just put a clinic on Pazienza and still had good wins against Mancini and Camacho in front of him.

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1990 saw him beat Nelson, but IMO he put in a career performance against Pendelton. Freddie was on fire in that fight and rebounded strong after the fairly close lost, Whitaker had to be at his very best that night; Nazario was not a complete mug either.
Whitaker looked in cruise control against Pendleton. It wasn't a fight he was particularly sharp in. Pendleton tried his best and swung from the rafters, and he did keep Pea defensive and landed the odd good punch.

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By 1990 Whitaker beats Chavez at 135 and probably 140; but 88 was too early IMO.
Whitaker proved he could handle adversity in the Ramirez and Mayweather fights and he went the distance with them without too much of a problem. This gives me quite a bit of confidence in predicting that Whitaker would go the full distance with Chavez. Chavez would have a chance to pull it out because Whitaker wasnt quite the Whitaker who amped it up a notch in 89, but I'd still favour Whitaker to do the business.
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Old 08-07-2008, 11:07 AM   #20
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Default Re: Chavez v Whitaker - 1987 (135 lbs)

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Originally Posted by Sweet Pea
You're saying his fight with Pendleton was his best performance because he was able to beat a fighter who was otherwise known as a journeyman? That was a competitive fight, unlike his fights with guys like Haugen and Ramirez, much more dominant wins.
I am saying Whitaker was more impressive in 1990 because he was in more competitve fights. If pushed I would say Whitaker's peak fight was Nelson.
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