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Old 08-11-2007, 12:18 AM   #16
Seamus
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Default Re: Tale of the tape - heavyweights

Quote:
Originally Posted by Longcount
If the vintage guys could have scientifically increased their career starting weight by 20% (which is less than Holyfield & Moorer did) :

Liston would have been 240
Jeffries would have been 252
Dempsey and Louis would have been 217
Marciano would have been (a very stumpy) 228
Baer would have been 230
Tunney would have been 210
.
Good comedy, my friend.

A six foot Liston at 240 would be even more ponderous than the original version. Jeffries at 252 is just laughable. And the Bowling Ball you propose of Marciano is Saul Montana-esque.
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Old 08-11-2007, 09:14 AM   #17
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Default Re: Tale of the tape - heavyweights

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Originally Posted by Seamus
Good comedy, my friend.

A six foot Liston at 240 would be even more ponderous than the original version. Jeffries at 252 is just laughable. And the Bowling Ball you propose of Marciano is Saul Montana-esque.

Muscle weighs more than fat and look at 160 lb James Toney 238 at 5"9 too fat but he looked good at 200-210 (JIROV-HOLYFIELD fights) Problem with muscle is that it affects stamina, guys like Marciano,Jeffries,Foreman could gain weight if it was put on right and look better but it would affect there stamina
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Old 08-11-2007, 10:45 AM   #18
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Default Re: Tale of the tape - heavyweights

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Originally Posted by Bummy Davis
Muscle weighs more than fat and look at 160 lb James Toney 238 at 5"9 too fat but he looked good at 200-210 (JIROV-HOLYFIELD fights) Problem with muscle is that it affects stamina, guys like Marciano,Jeffries,Foreman could gain weight if it was put on right and look better but it would affect there stamina
To understand why the old timer fighters were lighter, one must understand the times they lived in. There was no such thing as air conditioning back then. Transportation was no walk in the park. Life’s most mundane tasks required men to break a sweat. Manual labor was at its peak. The fighters themselves could go beyond 15 rounds. Fat fighters do not do well in distance fights. There was no such thing as processed fast food loaded with fats, and such.

Such conditions molded leaner and harder men built to go the distance.
If fighters like Corbett, Fitzsimmons, Dempsey, Louis, and Marciano were fighting today, they would be at least 10-15 pounds heavier. Modern fighters diets in general are not as good. With the maximum distance being 12 rounds, fighters focus more on building muscles for hitting power, then cardio exercises designed to help fighter’s go 15 rounds.

I do agree with poster Bummy Davis though. There is a thing as too much weight. How much is too much depends on the fighter’s height and body type.
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Old 08-11-2007, 10:49 AM   #19
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Default Re: Tale of the tape - heavyweights

Quote:
Originally Posted by Longcount
If the vintage guys could have scientifically increased their career starting weight by 20% (which is less than Holyfield & Moorer did) :

Liston would have been 240
Jeffries would have been 252
Dempsey and Louis would have been 217
Marciano would have been (a very stumpy) 228
Baer would have been 230
Tunney would have been 210

Guys like Patterson and Fitzsimmons, even with the additional bulking-up, would still have been cruisers.

It just goes to show that these guys were potentially big enough to compete today.
While your argument is valid I think your estimates of how much muscle these guys could carry is a little optimistic. I would suggest the following are realistic (asuming they were totaly ripped)-

Liston at 225 lbs
Jeffries 230 lbs
Dempsey 210 lbs
Louis 220 lbs
Marciano 205 lbs
Baer 230 lbs
Tunney 210 lbs

Then again if you cut down the amout of roadwork they did to modern levels you could perhaps add 10 lbs to all of these figures albeit for no gain in performence.
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Old 08-11-2007, 05:41 PM   #20
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Default Re: Tale of the tape - heavyweights

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Originally Posted by Mendoza
To understand why the old timer fighters were lighter, one must understand the times they lived in. There was no such thing as air conditioning back then. Transportation was no walk in the park. Life’s most mundane tasks required men to break a sweat. Manual labor was at its peak. The fighters themselves could go beyond 15 rounds. Fat fighters do not do well in distance fights. There was no such thing as processed fast food loaded with fats, and such.

Such conditions molded leaner and harder men built to go the distance.
If fighters like Corbett, Fitzsimmons, Dempsey, Louis, and Marciano were fighting today, they would be at least 10-15 pounds heavier. Modern fighters diets in general are not as good. With the maximum distance being 12 rounds, fighters focus more on building muscles for hitting power, then cardio exercises designed to help fighter’s go 15 rounds.

I do agree with poster Bummy Davis though. There is a thing as too much weight. How much is too much depends on the fighter’s height and body type.
Back then the good trainer established a good weight for the HEAVYWEIGHTS, even though it was not manditory, Joe Louis,Marciano,Dempsey etc. had to be cut, ripped and ready
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Old 06-12-2011, 04:14 AM   #21
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Default Re: Tale of the tape - heavyweights

Boxers have bigger legs now because they lift weights, which was frowned on up until the 1960s because of the "musclebound" myth.
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Old 06-12-2011, 10:20 AM   #22
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Default Re: Tale of the tape - heavyweights

I concur pretty much with what Bummy and Janitor have said so far in this thread - just thought i'd drop in two of the one's I always found funniest - that being Tyson's and Holy's heights - I have a friend who is bang on 6ft who met Tyson in Vegas 2 or 3 years back and he thought Tyson was about 3 or 4 inches shorter than him - he said he wasn't much taller than me (and I'm 5'8") - the photo he had with him confirmed that he was in the region of 3 to 4 inches shorter than him - 100% definately NOT the half inch shorter that his tale of the tape says

also holyfield for all of his cruiserweight days was listed as 6ft 1in yet after being 'scientifically' trained he had not only put on 20 pounds of pure muscle but he had suddenly grown an extra inch too haha I remember one sarcastic writer commenting that he must've been put in a grow bag lol

Last edited by RockysSplitNose; 06-12-2011 at 07:50 PM.
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Old 06-12-2011, 07:53 PM   #23
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Default Re: Tale of the tape - heavyweights

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Ali was measued at 6'4'1/2 on Howard Cosell show with Wilt Chamberlain 7'1 most of the measurements are incorrect as you say.
Yeah but Ali was wearing his nice thick soled shoes for that show in a vain attempt to not look quite as much of a short arse next to the human skyscraper
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Old 06-13-2011, 01:56 AM   #24
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Default Re: Tale of the tape - heavyweights

What height was Louis? A 220 Louis would destroy anyone that I have seen, I am guessing he was around 6ft 1.
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Old 06-13-2011, 11:52 AM   #25
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Default Re: Tale of the tape - heavyweights

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Originally Posted by Mendoza View Post
Vitali might be 6’8” or taller.. McCline is listed at 6’6”. Look at the photo.

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Vitali is 6'6" , McCline 6'3.5". McCline is actually shorter than Wladimir whom is visibly shorter than Vitali , and Wladimir was even listed 6'5" vs Puritty.
Wladimir is 6'4.5" max.
Regarding the picture above , McCline is probably on high heels .
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Old 06-13-2011, 11:54 AM   #26
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Default Re: Tale of the tape - heavyweights

Toney is 5'8" , Roid 5'9" , Tyson 5'9"-5'9.5" , Tua 5'8-5'8.5"
Marciano was in no way a millimeter above 5'10" , probably half an inch less or even shorter , photos do lie.
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Old 06-04-2012, 01:43 PM   #27
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Default Re: Tale of the tape - heavyweights

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Originally Posted by Russell View Post
Maybe skipping rope had something to do with it? Pretty good at working your thighs and what not.

I know Liston skipped rope heavily...
Leadenly might be a more appropriate term
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Old 06-04-2012, 01:50 PM   #28
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Default Re: Tale of the tape - heavyweights

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Originally Posted by Mendoza View Post
To understand why the old timer fighters were lighter, one must understand the times they lived in. There was no such thing as air conditioning back then. Transportation was no walk in the park. Life’s most mundane tasks required men to break a sweat. Manual labor was at its peak. The fighters themselves could go beyond 15 rounds. Fat fighters do not do well in distance fights. There was no such thing as processed fast food loaded with fats, and such.

Such conditions molded leaner and harder men built to go the distance.
If fighters like Corbett, Fitzsimmons, Dempsey, Louis, and Marciano were fighting today, they would be at least 10-15 pounds heavier. Modern fighters diets in general are not as good. With the maximum distance being 12 rounds, fighters focus more on building muscles for hitting power, then cardio exercises designed to help fighter’s go 15 rounds.

I do agree with poster Bummy Davis though. There is a thing as too much weight. How much is too much depends on the fighter’s height and body type.
Good Post!
Jeffries often talked about how little a man of his bulk actually needed to keep in condition. I think he may have had the discipline of an early Marciano .
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Old 06-04-2012, 02:00 PM   #29
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Default Re: Tale of the tape - heavyweights

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Originally Posted by Seamus View Post
Good comedy, my friend.

A six foot Liston at 240 would be even more ponderous than the original version. Jeffries at 252 is just laughable. And the Bowling Ball you propose of Marciano is Saul Montana-esque.
XPERT-post Seamus m8.
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Old 06-04-2012, 02:33 PM   #30
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Default Re: Tale of the tape - heavyweights

ok
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