Bruce Lee

[cross_trainer]

A few things:

* Bruce was never really a fighter. He looks pretty fast in the sparring footage that survives from a demonstration at a tournament, was clearly very athletic, and has an OK (if circumstantial) fight record. So he could thrash your average goon in a brawl, but I doubt you'd see him beating good professional boxers or wrestlers. He isn't even the most qualified actor in martial arts--Chuck Norris and Victor McLaughlin were better.

* He was, however, a great martial arts theorist. This is undeniable--he had the respect of a goodly number of top-ranked martial artists, including Norris (top-ranked karate fighter in the late 60's) and Lewis (who credits Bruce with developing his kickboxing style). Jeet Kune Do was something that people had been doing for years, but Lee allowed the concept to become mainstream. Ironically, an actor got it right in the 60's and the Gracies--who still stick to a single style--never did.



In conclusion: Great analytical mind, decent-to-good martial arts ability. Definitely a MA theorist deserving of quotation, and his influence on the martial arts was generally good. He was not a great FIGHTER, but then again, neither was Cus D'Amato. He's closest to Emmanuel Steward--a great abstract grasp of combat sports combined with respectable "amateur" experience.

[achillesthegreat]

Originally Posted by Beebs

It's not hate at the man, I'm indifferent about him, its his cult like following, it like they make Chuck Norris jokes but without the joke parts.

And for the record, those NHB street fights were won according to him or his wife, most other people who are somehow connected to the Wong-Jack-Mon fight seem to think Bruce lost pretty handily. And I for one have never seen any documentation of his Hong Kong boxing championship.

I totally agree about the Chuck thing but what he did has to be respected. Like CT said he was theorist, he trained fucking hard and I doubt every impressive accomplishment he had was fake.

Like I said, ultimately he simply wasn't as proven as a professional combatant but still deserves respect.

[acb]

Originally Posted by Beebs

It's not hate at the man, I'm indifferent about him

Lol you clearly hate the man. You sound like he stole something from you personally.

[Beebs]

Originally Posted by acb

Lol you clearly hate the man. You sound like he stole something from you personally.

No, like I said, I hate his cult of personality, which steals from people who rightfully deserve credit for being fighters.

[Beebs]

Originally Posted by cross_trainer

Ironically, an actor got it right in the 60's and the Gracies--who still stick to a single style--never did.

I would thouroughly disagree, where are all the succesful JKD style fighters, because I can't even begin to count the number of succesful gracie trained fighters.

[RDJ]

Originally Posted by achillesthegreat

What absolute haters.

That obviously isn't his whole record. They are just numerous IMPRESSIVE victories that only morons wouldn't recognise.

Impressive, compared to world class fighters? C'mon. Bruce Lee was a good athlete, but not a fighter.

[cross_trainer]

Originally Posted by Beebs

I would thouroughly disagree, where are all the succesful JKD style fighters, because I can't even begin to count the number of succesful gracie trained fighters.

There aren't any successful Jun Fan style fighters. JKD is the concept of cross-training--and there are many, many successful cross-trainers around (I myself am an extremely successful cross-trainer).

The Gracies have, by and large, stuck with BJJ.

[RDJ]

Originally Posted by chimba

Bruce Lee was doing submissions, and fighting in the streets when ALL of these guys are in their Fathers Nutsacks..

Your point is?

Originally Posted by chimba

Even the Gracies respected and has never badmouthed Bruce

And your point is?

Originally Posted by chimba

Fuck in enter the dragon or some movie in 1970!!! He armed bar someone on the ground...People pause and think... First time ever in a motion picture...If he was born later and had the same mind he will be great

.And to see him disrespected here is kinda unbelievable..

Wow!! He did something cool in a movie, he must have been the best fighter ever!

[achillesthegreat]

Originally Posted by RDJ

Impressive, compared to world class fighters? C'mon. Bruce Lee was a good athlete, but not a fighter.

I've already said he isn't as impressive as the true pros but it is impressive he fought numerous styles and his theories are certainly compelling and I agree witht them.

Lee was not Fedor or Mayweather but he wasn't some myth.

[cross_trainer]

Originally Posted by chimba

Fuck in enter the dragon or some movie in 1970!!! He armed bar someone on the ground...People pause and think... First time ever in a motion picture...If he was born later and had the same mind he will be great

Cagney armbarred a guy in a 1940's movie, Blood on the Sun. Great Judo fight scene in that movie.

[aramini]

Bruce Lee was very important to the evolution of martial arts - his theories of using what worked and discarding empty tradition that has no application are the cornerstone of MMA. He was an original thinker, and a great one. I don't care if Sherk would destroy him, because Bruce was something very important to combat arts, an essential influence and in my mind the true creator of MMA. He wasn't a physical slouch, but I am confident he MIGHT be competitive with some good fighters his size because of his conditioning and strength at that low weight.

A Tyson or Couture match up is ludicrous, but another 125 pound fighter might very well have some problems with Bruce. You have to appreciate that without Bruce everyone would still be throwing reverse punches with the other hand glued to the hip in martial arts competions. Philosophically he deserves the respect he gets, though perhaps not through competition.