Duran's fights against Paz...

[Russell]

Why did he lost both of them?

He had the tools, undoubtably... Was he just outworked by the younger guy? Too old at that point?

Neither one was really close on the cards.

Also, in that vein... How did Laing manage to beat Duran?

Did he do better against Camacho in their two fights than most thought he would? The cards weren't too terribly lopsided...[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

[GazOC]

Laing was a pretty good fighter who if you let get rounds in the bag, you just ran out of rounds...I think Duran took him for granted and paid for it.

The two Paz fights were good calls, Duran was finished at that point.

[Russell]

Hmm, just curious.

Duran did fight on another half decade plus after the first Paz fight. So I figured he might of had something left in the tank at that point.

[GazOC]

Don't underestimate Paz at that weight, he was a decent fighter (he wasn't great though) but he was busy enough to beat Duran.....IIRC correctly the first Paz-Duran fight was close but after that he was losing decisions fringe contenders and journeymen.

Before Paz, Durans last big win was against Barkley 5 odd years before...so it was hardly a sharp decline.

[GazOC]

Originally Posted by Russell

Duran did fight on another half decade plus after the first Paz fight. So I figured he might of had something left in the tank at that point.

He fought cute..nothing in the tank though.

[red cobra]

It was sad and rather pathetic to see Duran struggle and come up short against guys like Pazienza late in his career. Most of the great ones never knew when to retire and tarnished their legacy somewhat in the process. Duran, if he had fought Vinnie at the time he fought Barkley would have trounced him. The Duran that tortured and brutalized Davey Moore would have put Paz in the hospital. There wouldn't have been a rematch, as Vinnie would have finished as a viable contender. Think of all the blood he would have lost.

[TBooze]

Duran was a shell of himself post Barkley and yet he gave Pazienza a fight first time round, and beat Camacho in the first fight IMO.

The Laing defeat was down to a lack of motivation and Kirkland Laing being bang in form and fully focused for perhaps the only time in his career.

[Duodenum]

What I'll always remember about Duran against Paz is that Roberto showed Vinnie what the floor felt like for the first time. (I consider that to be a greater humiliation to Paz than Wepner's referee ruled KD of Ali.) Vinnie couldn't get him outta there, and neither could Camacho. (Hell, Duran did better against Camacho than SRL did.) It bears repeating that Camacho did not force Duran into retirement, a car accident did. (Otherwise, Roberto might still be breaking the faces of tomato cans today.) His deflection marksmanship was still uncanny. Somehow, his hand-eye coordination never reallly abandoned him the way it did Ortiz against Buchanan, or Ali against Berbick.

If boxing is to be considered as the art of self-defense, then Duran remained competent to the very end against world class competition. (Who knows, as weirdly bizarre as his career was, he might have actually avenged his loss to Joppy. Normal rules didn't seem to apply to him sometimes.)

[Renofan]

Originally Posted by TBooze

Duran was a shell of himself post Barkley and yet he gave Pazienza a fight first time round, and beat Camacho in the first fight IMO.

The Laing defeat was down to a lack of motivation and Kirkland Laing being bang in form and fully focused for perhaps the only time in his career.

I agree 100% Duran beat Camacho in the first fight. To me that's Duran's last "semi-great" or impressive performance, not great because Camacho was on the downslide too, but Duran turned the clock back slightly for that night.

[Mantequilla]

Originally Posted by Duodenum

What I'll always remember about Duran against Paz is that Roberto showed Vinnie what the floor felt like for the first time. (I consider that to be a greater humiliation to Paz than Wepner's referee ruled KD of Ali.) Vinnie couldn't get him outta there, and neither could Camacho. (Hell, Duran did better against Camacho than SRL did.) It bears repeating that Camacho did not force Duran into retirement, a car accident did. (Otherwise, Roberto might still be breaking the faces of tomato cans today.) His deflection marksmanship was still uncanny. Somehow, his hand-eye coordination never reallly abandoned him the way it did Ortiz against Buchanan, or Ali against Berbick.

If boxing is to be considered as the art of self-defense, then Duran remained competent to the very end against world class competition. (Who knows, as weirdly bizarre as his career was, he might have actually avenged his loss to Joppy. Normal rules didn't seem to apply to him sometimes.)

Ortiz looked ok against Buchanan i thought.He would probably have been able to defeat some of the lesser contenders that night.

[Duodenum]

Originally Posted by Mantequilla

Ortiz looked ok against Buchanan i thought.He would probably have been able to defeat some of the lesser contenders that night.

Certainly he would have, but Carlos was frustrated against Buchanan, despite being in what he himself described as top condition.