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Old 09-04-2007, 08:20 AM   #61
KTFO
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Default Re: Buster Douglas vs. Rocky Marciano

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Sonny Liston.



You mean the kid who is still fighting four roundes in between spells in prison?

If Marciano had heard of him which I doubt he would not have been seen as a credible oponent for any of the Ring top 10 yet.

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Beating Nino Valdes doesn't mean you cleaned out the heavy div.


Look at the ring magazine rankings for the presceeding years and then look at the people Moore beat over this period. It is not just about Valdez.

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Louis wasn't the same fighter anymore since his weak chin was exposed by Walcott (among others). Marciano retired Louis.


Of course he wasn't the same fighter but even at the end of his career he was only beaten by lineal champions.

Beating a shot version of Louis is a bit like beating a shot version of god.

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Beating handpicked lightheavies or shot fighters,ducking real threats. That's no achievement.


It is funny how these handpicked oponents were always the No1 contender when Marciano fought them.

It must have been a verry happy coincidence for him that the fighters he chose to hand pick were always ranked in the No1 spot.

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Liston of 1958 would've annihilated Marciano. Marciano retired because he heard of Liston's success.


Liston was nobody when Marciano retired.

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Marciano retired in 1955. Liston fought 8-rounders in 1955.


He would need a number of 10 or 12 rounders under his belt before he could even be a credible title challenger. He would also need wins over a few ranked contenders.

Bottom line is that the only way you would ever get Marciano and Liston in the same ring is either-

A. Marciano feasting on a green Liston for which he would rightly have been criticised.

or

B. Liston beating up on a shot Marciano on an ill fated comeback.


Useless. You proved before that you don't even know when Louis retired or how many rounds Liston fought in 1955.
Tokyo-Douglas would school Marciano,end of story.
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Old 09-04-2007, 08:33 AM   #62
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Default Re: Buster Douglas vs. Rocky Marciano

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Useless. You proved before that you don't even know when Louis retired or how many rounds Liston fought in 1955.
I am quite aware of when Louis retired and how many rounds Liston fought in a given year thankyou verry much.

Perhaps you are not aware that Louis was the No1 contender the year he fought Marciano or that Sonny Liston lost to a hand picked light heavyweight called Marty Marshal the year that Marciano retired and was seen as a total nobody.

I get the idea that you would give Marciano more credit for beating the Sonny Liston of 1955 than you do for beating the Joe Louis of 1951.

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Tokyo-Douglas would school Marciano,end of story.
There is no such thing as end of story in a fantasy match up. Unless the fight happens the outcome is up for debate.
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Old 09-04-2007, 08:35 AM   #63
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Default Re: Buster Douglas vs. Rocky Marciano

[quote=janitor]
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. Unless the fight happens the outcome is up for debate.

Even then...
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Old 09-04-2007, 11:47 AM   #64
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There is no such thing as end of story in a fantasy match up.
Yeh. Keep on drawing your comic strips.
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Old 09-04-2007, 11:49 AM   #65
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Default Re: Buster Douglas vs. Rocky Marciano

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Yeh. Keep on drawing your comic strips.
You are the one who is claiming to be certain about the outcome of a match between two fighters seperated by 40 years.

I would say that you are the one engaging in a healthy dose of fantasy.
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Old 09-04-2007, 11:54 AM   #66
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You are the one who is claiming to be certain about the outcome of a match between two fighters seperated by 40 years.

I would say that you are the one engaging in a healthy dose of fantasy.

Comparing fighters of different eras is part of the essence of this board.
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Old 09-04-2007, 11:57 AM   #67
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Default Re: Buster Douglas vs. Rocky Marciano

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Comparing fighters of different eras is part of the essence of this board.
Comparing them is one thing.

Claiming that one will "definitely beat another period" is another.

If you can predict the outcome of fights with that degree of certainty you don't need to work for a living.
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Old 09-04-2007, 12:05 PM   #68
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Default Re: Buster Douglas vs. Rocky Marciano

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Comparing them is one thing.

Claiming that one will "definitely beat another period" is another.

If you can predict the outcome of fights with that degree of certainty you don't need to work for a living.



Company secret.
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Old 09-04-2007, 02:48 PM   #69
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Default Re: Buster Douglas vs. Rocky Marciano

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Originally Posted by Bummy Davis
Just a common expression, I love dogs, I think that term is to express a dogs reverence to man
Well maybe, but I think Dog and man was more of partners than anything. 50 50 buddies, In the early days, we needed there high sense of smell for protection and tracking down food, and we share the food we caught. Than we also pet them, and have a certain bound with a dog that we dont have with other beast. Sorry its just the way I feel. Maybe heart of a chicken or something. Ok.
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Old 09-04-2007, 03:03 PM   #70
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Default Re: Buster Douglas vs. Rocky Marciano

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Marciano retired because he heard of Liston's success.
Marciano retired in 1955. Liston fought 8-rounders in 1955.
Marciano retired in September of 1955, at which point, Liston had all but 13 pro bouts, including a loss to 18-5-1 Marty Marshal who was 180 Lbs and broke Sonny's jaw. The argument that Marciano retired soley for the purpose of avoiding Sonny Liston holds little or no water.
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Old 09-04-2007, 03:36 PM   #71
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Default Re: Buster Douglas vs. Rocky Marciano

Try NO water. I dont know why people bring up Marciano duck Liston.
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Old 09-04-2007, 04:03 PM   #72
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Default Re: Buster Douglas vs. Rocky Marciano

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Try NO water. I dont know why people bring up Marciano duck Liston.
Not just Liston.

He knew that Ali and Frazier were going to be around in ten years time.
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Old 09-04-2007, 04:30 PM   #73
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Default Re: Buster Douglas vs. Rocky Marciano

I don't know if its true, but I think I read somewhere that Rocky retired due to some sort of injury during training or something to that effect. In any event, it's difficult to believe that he ducked anyone, given that he had pretty much cleaned out the division. Some have argued that he should have fought Nino Valdez, but Valdez lost about a third of his pro fights including one to Archie Moore who Rocky then defeated. Floyd Patterson was a great fighter back then, but I'm not sure what he was ranked in 1955, or for that matter if Marciano even viewed him as a threat. Ingemar Johansen had 11 fights in 1955, excluding him as a contender that year. Frankly, I don't think that the Rock was in a position to be threatened or even challenged in late 1955.
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Old 09-04-2007, 04:44 PM   #74
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Default Re: Buster Douglas vs. Rocky Marciano

Patterson was still fighting at a lightheavyweight in 55. He was not in the top ten in 55 or in April 56 the year Marciano retire. 4 months later the title was still vacated and Patterson was fighting Moore for the title. Marciano did (With the help of Moore and Charles of couse) clean out the divsion. From 55 to April 56, there relly was no one that could have been worth a title shot. Who was there?? No one. Marciano clean out the divsion. And only Joe Louis and perhaps Ali and and Tyson could make such a claim of totally cleaning out the heavyweight divsion like Marciano did.
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