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Old 09-05-2007, 04:11 PM   #1
Sweet Science
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Default Leonard vs Hopkins

The exact Sugar Ray Leonard from '87 who fought Hagler steps in the ring against the very same Executioner of '04 that beat De La Hoya.

Who would win this one? Including the reasoning behind your choice.

They square off at 160
Over 12 Rounds.
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Old 09-05-2007, 05:04 PM   #2
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Default Re: Leonard vs Hopkins

I'd pick Hopkins. Very similar fighter to Leonard in terms of ring smarts. Both thinking fighters as well. Hopkins has the height and reach like Hearns, although maybe not as free with his punches the way Hearns was in his prime.

Hopkins possess an excellent left jab, but not particularly a weapon he uses as often as Hearns. However, Hopkins' measured approach and tactical awareness are areas he holds over Hearns. I'm convinced Hopkins would show Leonard respect during the early rounds, pretty much the same way Hagler did 20 years ago. But Hopkins' superb agility, and counter punching instincts would serve him well. Hagler never had those attributes when he fought Leonard. He was past his prime, and never had the ability to box with Leonard at long range, Hopkins on the otherhand does have that ability. The Hagler of the early 80's is a different matter altogether.

Hopkins paces himself very well over 12 rounds. He doesn't have concerning stamina problems like Hearns, and he's even more durable and quicker than the Hagler who fought Leonard all those years ago.

Leonard's speed would cause Hopkins problems, no question. But he'd find Hopkins ring generalship, and versatility inside and at long range too much to handle. Leonard had tremendous success when he went inside against Hearns, especially with the left hook to the body and head. But when he closes the distance and tries the same with Hopkins, he'd finally meet someone who could give as good as he gets at close quarters. Leonard had Hearns all over the ring on a few occassions over both fights, but you can bet your bottom dollar on Hopkins standing firm.

Its a very close fight. Leonard would have his moments with quick flurries and lead right hands, but he'd find Hopkins just too good.

Hopkins W12
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Old 09-05-2007, 07:44 PM   #3
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Default Re: Leonard vs Hopkins

Peak for peak I pick Hopkins in a fascintating one.

The years you've selected I pick Leonard in the worst...fight...ever.

Everyone argues about the split decision until they are blue in the face.
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Old 09-05-2007, 07:51 PM   #4
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Default Re: Leonard vs Hopkins

Mcgrain speaks true. Hopkins stops him late.
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Old 09-05-2007, 07:52 PM   #5
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Default Re: Leonard vs Hopkins

Quote:
Originally Posted by McGrain
Peak for peak I pick Hopkins in a fascintating one.

The years you've selected I pick Leonard in the worst...fight...ever.

Everyone argues about the split decision until they are blue in the face.
Hopkins has only ever fought as low as middleweight, and Leonard fought at middleweight once, which was against Hagler of course. So middleweight is really the only weight division to get tham as close to prime as possible, even though Leonard was past his prime at that weight and Hopkins was in his prime.

Going prime for prime, your matching fighters from different weight divisions against each other.
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Old 09-05-2007, 08:03 PM   #6
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Default Re: Leonard vs Hopkins

Hopkins' style would force Leonard to come forward, and that would be a problem from Ray. He never looked as awkward and puzzled as he did when he had to go on the attack against a top calibre opponent on defense. Hopkins would lay traps and pop Leonard with straight rights. Hopkins wins the decision.
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Old 09-05-2007, 08:03 PM   #7
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Default Re: Leonard vs Hopkins

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Originally Posted by Robbi
Hopkins has only ever fought as low as middleweight, and Leonard fought at middleweight once, which was against Hagler of course. So middleweight is really the only weight division to get tham as close to prime as possible, even though Leonard was past his prime at that weight and Hopkins was in his prime.

Going prime for prime, your matching fighters from different weight divisions against each other.
It doesn't seem you are up on weights much. Leonard fought at middleweight several times.
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Old 09-05-2007, 08:12 PM   #8
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Default Re: Leonard vs Hopkins

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Originally Posted by Street Lethal
It doesn't seem you are up on weights much. Leonard fought at middleweight several times.
Bouts after his fight with Hagler at middleweight

Lalonde, light-heavyweight/super middlweight.
Thomas Hearns, super-middleweight.
Roberto Duran, super-middleweight.
Terry Norris, junior-middewelight.
Hector Camacho, middleweight.


Apoligies, one fight. I forgot about the Camacho fight, but I'm sure you'll agree it aint worth using when gauging him against Hopkins.
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Old 09-05-2007, 08:20 PM   #9
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Default Re: Leonard vs Hopkins

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Originally Posted by Robbi
Bouts after his fight with Hagler at middleweight

Lalonde, light-heavyweight/super middlweight.
Thomas Hearns, super-middleweight.
Roberto Duran, super-middleweight.
Terry Norris, junior-middewelight.
Hector Camacho, middleweight.


Apoligies, one fight. I forgot about the Camacho fight, but I'm sure you'll agree it aint worth using when gauging him against Hopkins.
Leonard-Duran III 160 pounds. Middleweight. Leonard-Norris 154 pounds. Middleweight. Leonard-Camacho 159. Middleweight. Leonard-Hearns II 160. Middleweight. (It was a light heavyweight fight)Kevin Howard, Ayub Kalule, and Marcos Geraldo are just a few others that Leonard fought over 147. Therefore, in fact, Leonard fought many times as a middleweight.
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Old 09-05-2007, 08:59 PM   #10
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Default Re: Leonard vs Hopkins

Quote:
Originally Posted by Street Lethal
Leonard-Duran III 160 pounds. Middleweight. Leonard-Norris 154 pounds. Middleweight. Leonard-Camacho 159. Middleweight. Leonard-Hearns II 160. Middleweight. (It was a light heavyweight fight)Kevin Howard, Ayub Kalule, and Marcos Geraldo are just a few others that Leonard fought over 147. Therefore, in fact, Leonard fought many times as a middleweight.
Leonard officially fought as middleweight twice, against Hagler and Camacho. His fights with Hearns in the rematch and Duran in the rubbermatch he weighed 160lbs, even though those were defenses of his WBC super-middleweight title. But Leonard was past his prime when squaring off with those two in the late 1980's.

But the bottom line is, Leonard against Hopkins prime for prime can't be done Im afraid. Its fantasy thinking as both were in their primes in seperate divisions.
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Old 09-05-2007, 11:41 PM   #11
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Default Re: Leonard vs Hopkins

Leonard had a great chin, so I don't see Hopkins even at his hardest-hitting stage stopping him. Although i think he's too strong for Leonard and would win a comfortable ud.
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Old 09-06-2007, 12:09 AM   #12
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Default Re: Leonard vs Hopkins

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robbi
Leonard officially fought as middleweight twice, against Hagler and Camacho. His fights with Hearns in the rematch and Duran in the rubbermatch he weighed 160lbs, even though those were defenses of his WBC super-middleweight title. But Leonard was past his prime when squaring off with those two in the late 1980's.

But the bottom line is, Leonard against Hopkins prime for prime can't be done Im afraid. Its fantasy thinking as both were in their primes in seperate divisions.
Are you going to reclassify all of Robinson's middleweight fights where he fought at between 147 pounds and 160 pounds. Does Robinson now have a lot fewer fights at middleweight than we thought he did?
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Old 09-06-2007, 07:04 AM   #13
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Default Re: Leonard vs Hopkins

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Originally Posted by choc#1
srl is a way better fighter then bhop fullstop no questions asked ray would win bhop only ever beats blown up junior middleweights and gets owned by jermain taylor and ray was a blown up welterweight but the best ever welterweight
Bernard Hopkins UD. Hagler and Hearns in one package. Leonard bangs inside with Hopkins and finds he gets as good he's giving. Also Hopkins never had stamina issues and a weak chin like Hearns. His chin was pretty much as good as Leonards, if not better. Hopkins was also physically as strong as Hagler as he was a full blown middleweight.


Leonard and Taylor are totally different fighters. Leonard doesn't possess the height and reach to box with someone like Hopkins on the outside. He certainly got "owened" by Hearns at long range over both fights. And his scoring punches against Lalonde were done at close quarters.

Hearns failed, Hagler failed, Hopkins has the tools to get it right.
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Old 09-06-2007, 07:52 AM   #14
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Default Re: Leonard vs Hopkins

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robbi
Leonard officially fought as middleweight twice, against Hagler and Camacho. His fights with Hearns in the rematch and Duran in the rubbermatch he weighed 160lbs, even though those were defenses of his WBC super-middleweight title. But Leonard was past his prime when squaring off with those two in the late 1980's.

But the bottom line is, Leonard against Hopkins prime for prime can't be done Im afraid. Its fantasy thinking as both were in their primes in seperate divisions.
Yes you are quite right, I'm glad you recognised that. That's why I specified the years I did: Leonard '87 was the best version of him at Middleweight. The fight would have to take place at middleweight (in order to be competitive- Leonard at light heavy is not a good idea). As you quite correctly stated Hopkins never fought below middleweight.
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Old 09-06-2007, 08:10 AM   #15
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Default Re: Leonard vs Hopkins

Hopkins will win this one tho SRL gives a decent shout. Hopkins is one of the smartest fighters of the last 30 years and sure ain't beating himself here. His natural weight advantage and solid pace here will slowly turn the fight his way. He won't be content simply to plod after Ray but will actively seek to cut off the ring and let his hands go when he does. Hopkins adapts superbly as a fight goes on and his versatility will serve him well.
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