Lineage of the coloured heavyweight title

[djanders]

Great thread! There is a lot of information in here. I enjoyed reading it! Thanks, Janitor!

[Boilermaker]

Originally Posted by Boilermaker

Thanks for that, but

Sam Langford may have "claimed" it, but you cannot "claim" a lineal title. This means that Johnson retained the lineal title (in the same way that George Foreman retained the lineal World title) when he refused to fight no1 contenders or when Spinks maintained the lineal title until he lost to Tyson, or Ali, until he lost to Frazier.

When Johnson lost to Willard, he did not lose a fight for 11 years. That is an amazing record, when you think about it. His next loss was to Fighting Bob Lawson. I guess the question here is does 'fighting' Bob Lawson qualify for the coloured heavyweight championship. And if he does, doe this mean that he holds the lineal title until he meets George Godfrey, or Is bob lawsons record different to what is on boxrec.

Answering my own question Fighting Bob Lawson became the lineal coloured champion he held on to the title until he lost his fight to George Godfrey. in September 1926. The lineal title will then be unified with the official title when Godfrey beat Gains in november. Godfrey would not lose another fight to an eligible contender, so i guess that he really does have the real lineal coloured title.

[TonyT]

SNOOPBEE N Janitor ROCK! Great stuff guys. Thanks. DRMULLEN.

[Ste Hawkins]

Seek out the documentary on Jack Johnson called "Unforgiveable Blackness". V. Good.

[road_warrior_99]

George Godfrey had quite a few DQ's on his record. I noticed he beat Larry Gains once but then lost to him later on a Low Blow DQ. Did Godfrey DQ fights when things were not going his way?

[Stevie G]

Originally Posted by Ste Hawkins

Seek out the documentary on Jack Johnson called "Unforgiveable Blackness". V. Good.

Only saw this last week. Excellent.

[Marnoff]

Thanks for posting this.

[johnmaff36]

great post. very informative

[eslubin]

this is a neat project

[dublynflya]

Originally Posted by janitor

1926

Nov 8 George Godfrey KO6 Larry Gaines, Buffalo, NY
Nov 22 George Godfrey D10 Bearcat Wright, Portland, OR

1927

Jul 5 George Godfrey KO7 Neil Clisby, Los Angeles, CA
Nov 20 George Godfrey KO1 Clem Johnson, Atlantic City, NJ

1928

Aug 15 Larry Gaines WF3 George Godfrey, Toronto, Can
-Billed as a championship affair---Gaines never made any real claim to the title. He left to campaign in Europe and Godfrey remained recognized as the colored champion.

1930

Dec 19 George Godfrey D10 Bearcat Wright, Atlantic City, NJ
-Billed as for the American Black Title

1931

Aug 24 George Godfrey KO2 Seal Harris, Toronto, Can

1932

Sep 5 George Godfrey KO5 Ace Clark, Laredo, TX

1933

Jan 31 George Godfrey W10 Tiger Jack Fox, Indianapolis, IN
Mar 10 George Godfrey NC6 Bearcat Wright, Kansas City, MO
Oct 9 Obidiah Walker W10 George Godfrey, Philadelphia, PA

1935

Jul 20 Larry Gaines W15 Obidiah Walker, Leicester,

A truly superb post Janitor! Many thanks mate!!! One can only learn from such posts! Indeed such posts they are one of the main reasons I joined this site! I was fascinated to learn that there was a championship fight in the city of Newcastle, England, in 1902, which is where I live!!!! What a quiz question that is going to make. Many thanks, once again!!

[Stevie G]

Originally Posted by Ste Hawkins

Seek out the documentary on Jack Johnson called "Unforgiveable Blackness". V. Good.

I agree. Best documentary that I've seen of Johnson.

[My2Sense]

Originally Posted by janitor

1908

Jack Johnson wins world heavyweight title in December.

1909

Feb 20 Sam McVey W20 Joe Jeanette, Paris, FR
Apr 9 Sam McVey KO2 Cyclone Billy ******, Paris, FR
Apr 17 Joe Jeanette KO49 Sam McVey, Paris, FR
---Sam Langford claims title after Johnson refuses to face him for the world title.
Dec 11 Joe Jeanette D30 Sam McVey, Paris, FR

1910

Sep 6 Sam Langford W15 Joe Jeanette, Boston, MA
Nov 10 Sam Langfrod KO2 Jeff Clarke, Joplin , MO

1911

Jan 10 Sam Langford W12 Joe Jeanette, Boston, MA
Apr 1 Sam Langford D20 Sam McVey, Paris, FR
Dec 26 Sam McVey W20 Sam Langford, Sydney, NSW, AUS

1912

Apr 8 Sam Langford W20 Sam McVey, Sydney, NSW, AUS
Dec 26 Sam Langford KO13 Sam McVey, Sydney, NSW, AUS

1913

Dec 20 Sam Langford W20 Joe Jeanette, Paris, FR

1914

May 1 Harry Wills W10 Sam Langford, New Orleans, LA
Nov 26 Sam Langford KO14 Harry Wills, Los Angeles, CA

1916

Jan 3 Harry Wills W20 Sam Langford, New Orleans, LA
Feb 11 Sam Langford KO19 Harry Wills, New Orleans, LA

1917

Jan 25 Bill Tate W12 Sam Langford, Kansas City, MO
May 2 Sam Langford KO6 Bill Tate, St. Louis, MO
Dec 17 Sam Langford KO2 Kid Norfolk, Denver, CO

1918

Apr 14 Harry Wills KO6 Sam Langford, Panama City, Pan
May 19 Harry Wills TK7 Sam Langford, Panama City, Pan

1919

Aug 18 Harry Wills KO4 Jeff Clarke, Syracuse, NY

1920

Apr 19 Harry Wills W15 Sam Langford, Denver, CO

Wills is generally regarded by all as the leading black heavyweight in the world. He holds the “title” of colored champion until his loss at the hands of Jack Sharkey in October of 1926.

The actual lineage of the colored HW title during through time was with Johnson, who was never beaten by a black man until 1926 when he lost to Bob Lawson. What Langford, McVey, and others held was a dubious claim that they invented as a means of marketing themselves.

After Johnson's loss, the lineage should resume with George Godfrey, who beat Lawson shortly after his win over Johnson.

[eslubin]

ANy chance of compiling an easy to read title lineage, with number of reigns, etc? This is a great project since you can say at some points the colored title superceded the white title in significance

[Stevie G]

Black fighters had to go through all kinds of shit in this time period,did n't they. A reflection of life in general for them circa early twentieth century.

[mcvey]

Originally Posted by road_warrior_99

George Godfrey had quite a few DQ's on his record. I noticed he beat Larry Gains once but then lost to him later on a Low Blow DQ. Did Godfrey DQ fights when things were not going his way?

Sometimes, when he was paid to lose, because he had too much pride to lay down.