Dempsey's Hobbo Days

[UpWithEvil]

Originally Posted by mr. magoo

Given the record keeping of the period, it's quite plausible that people got away with saying whatever they wanted others to believe...

As a Colorado resident I can vouch for this much - there are several small mining communities in the area (Leadville, Farmington, Ouray, Durango) where Dempsey is known to have worked during his days as a laborer. It is not uncommon, when stopping in one of these small towns, to see a small plaque or notice on one of the surviving boom-time buildings stating to the effect, "On this site in 1915, Jack Dempsey, under the name "Kid Blackie", fought and defeated two men in a prizefight."

Toby Smith, author of "Kid Blackie - Jack Dempsey's Colorado Days" did an excellent job tracking down some of these prizefights and documenting them well enough for "official" inclusion in Dempsey's record, but even Smith acknowledges his research still leaves Dempsey's career record incomplete. I wouldn't credit Dempsey with "hundreds" of additional bouts, but I would guess that Dempsey's own unofficial recollection - 120 wins, 12 losses, 20 draws - is probably closer to the mark than his "official" record of 66-6-11.

[mr. magoo]

Originally Posted by UpWithEvil

As a Colorado resident I can vouch for this much - there are several small mining communities in the area (Leadville, Farmington, Ouray, Durango) where Dempsey is known to have worked during his days as a laborer. It is not uncommon, when stopping in one of these small towns, to see a small plaque or notice on one of the surviving boom-time buildings stating to the effect, "On this site in 1915, Jack Dempsey, under the name "Kid Blackie", fought and defeated two men in a prizefight."

Toby Smith, author of "Kid Blackie - Jack Dempsey's Colorado Days" did an excellent job tracking down some of these prizefights and documenting them well enough for "official" inclusion in Dempsey's record, but even Smith acknowledges his research still leaves Dempsey's career record incomplete. I wouldn't credit Dempsey with "hundreds" of additional bouts, but I would guess that Dempsey's own unofficial recollection - 120 wins, 12 losses, 20 draws - is probably closer to the mark than his "official" record of 66-6-11.

Very True,

James Jeffries and a number of other champions, were believed by many historians to have a great deal more bouts than what was actually recorded. As usual, the numbers differ depending on who you talk to, or the sources you read.

[Jack Dempsey]

Originally Posted by UpWithEvil

As a Colorado resident I can vouch for this much - there are several small mining communities in the area (Leadville, Farmington, Ouray, Durango) where Dempsey is known to have worked during his days as a laborer. It is not uncommon, when stopping in one of these small towns, to see a small plaque or notice on one of the surviving boom-time buildings stating to the effect, "On this site in 1915, Jack Dempsey, under the name "Kid Blackie", fought and defeated two men in a prizefight."

Toby Smith, author of "Kid Blackie - Jack Dempsey's Colorado Days" did an excellent job tracking down some of these prizefights and documenting them well enough for "official" inclusion in Dempsey's record, but even Smith acknowledges his research still leaves Dempsey's career record incomplete. I wouldn't credit Dempsey with "hundreds" of additional bouts, but I would guess that Dempsey's own unofficial recollection - 120 wins, 12 losses, 20 draws - is probably closer to the mark than his "official" record of 66-6-11.

How many sources would be required for official inclusion in his fight record?

[McGrain]

I really like the way this thread has turned out. Thanks to everyone who contributed this excellent info.

[Johnstown]

bump..i have a question to add..how many of Dempseys hobo and bar room prize fights were in fact in any way boxing matches...and how many were just straight up street fights?

[Theron]

Nobody knows he fought under different names quite alot, only the fights under kid blackie and j dempsey were recorded but the ones before are unknown

Interesting though Dempsey said his hardest fight was against some guy he fought in a bar boxing ring saying they both got knocked down alot and kept getting back up, then they drank free at the bar for the rest of the night.

[Danmann]

Micky Walker and langford both also came out of that Hobo life, riding rails, setting up in camps, fighting for small change. One interesting thing, everywhere they went, they had to do hard labor most of time, like chopping down tress and clearing forrest, digging ditches, construction (in a day when tools were no where like now) All tough work, made them strong.

[red cobra]

Originally Posted by McGrain

Can anyone put a number on Dempsey's pre-challenger fights? I was just watching a documentary with Mike Tyson analysing past champs, and he talks about Dempsey's numbers like they're a total myster. Does anyone know different?

More Scottish slang with Hobbo? Is that like a Ned?

[Seamus]

Originally Posted by McGrain

Greg, it's ratty old video called "Tyson: The Heavyweights". Mike and BBC correspondant Harry Carpenter sitting in a BBC editing suite running BBC film of some of the old champs. It is absolutley fascinating. Mike is curtious, respectful, insightful, a pleasure really, Carpenter was fond of him for years of the back of these interviews.

Tyson loved Dempsey, that much was very clear. "I love Jack Dempsey", he said this more than once. He was also well into Joe Louis, and described Conn-Louis I as his favourite fight. "If i'm depressed or something, I just hit the button on that fight, it just makes my day". I'd guess his top 3 would be Ali, Louis, Dempsey, though I wouldn't like to speculate as to the order.

There is some fantastic footage throughout of the great heavyweights and some lovely footage of Tyson himself.

Don't know if you'll still be able to get it but it's worth trying to track down.

I just rewatched this last week. It's pretty great.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPtq7POYQUU[/ame]

Jack Dempsey's Hobo Days are greatly exaggerated. At the age of 14, he garnered a very trust fund and pretty much settled into the lap of luxury. The rough appearance and tall stories were all playacting and ballyhoo. Riding the rails? He was strictly a pampered First Class Whites Only Car passenger.

[burt bienstock]

Originally Posted by Seamus

I just rewatched this last week. It's pretty great.

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

Jack Dempsey's Hobo Days are greatly exaggerated. At the age of 14, he garnered a very trust fund and pretty much settled into the lap of luxury. The rough appearance and tall stories were all playacting and ballyhoo. Riding the rails? He was strictly a pampered First Class Whites Only Car passenger.

Mike Tyson is a very bright and astute observer, saying that there was something fishy about the long count bout in Chicago...The referee Jack Barry was a product of the Chicago political machine ,lorded over by a chap named Al Capone...As Tyson observed and I have read many times over the years, when Tunney was dropped in the 7th round with a 7 punch barage, Barry told Dempsey to go to a neutral corner,and DID NOT start the count of one UNTIL Dempsey arrived in a neutral corner BEFORE Barry started the one count. Tunney was down for an estimated 17 second count, getting the benefit of clearing his foggy head,getting to his feet and back pedaling
away from the rusty legs of the 32 year old Dempsey...Fair enough ? BUT in the last round Tunney Dropped Dempsey with a right hand on the side of Jack's head and referee Barry immediately started the count of one
while Tunney hovered over Dempsey, NOT telling Gene to go to a neutral corner before he started the one count over Dempsey...WHy, Why, Why.?
Mike Tyson knows his onions for sure....Dempsey in my opinion and many others, should have won by a knockout over Tunney, but fate decreed otherwise...

[DDDUUDDDEE]

I read the title as "Dempsey's Hobbit Days" at first glance

Dempsey was one hardcore dude.

[Bummy Davis]

I have not watched the Dempsey Tunney long count for a while....Rusty Dempsey still showed the power and speed in the KD assault...I have Jack and Tunney very high in my opinion as great fighters but Dempsey has to be in my top 5....both men were exceptional even in this older film

By the way Tyson is a great historian, Jacobs had a great film collection and Cus knew a lot of the old time stories, Tyson took it all in and having been in the ring himself has a solid opinion. I would love to see him do a show about his favorite fighters and why

[Ricky42791]

Dempsey from the time he was like 15 was fighting in saloons and hobo camps just to be fed. His first trip out to NYC he slept on a bench in central park. The man was rugged and thats what developed his "mame you with every shot" attitude in the ring. He was fighting grown tough men in mining camps/saloons/hobo camps when he was just a teenager. Think about that...and he hadn't eaten for a while before the fight anyway

[HOUDINI]

I remember back in the very early 70's CBS had a special where old fights were shown. when they got to Dempsey they showed a clip I have never seen before or since. It was a first round ko of an opponent before he won the championship. since it was as I remember it outdoors and in the light of day I always thought it was his ko of Fulton. Dempsey walked from his corner and landed just a couple of punches and his opponent went down and out. Its so vivid in my mind and I remember they then showed the ko in slow motion. One of the blows was a body shot and the announcers pointed out the strength of this blow.

[HOUDINI]

Just a correction.....Tunney was down for 14.50 seconds and Dempsey was knocked down by Tunney in the very next round....the eighth.