Let's Look At John Ruiz For A Second..................

[Feiti]

Originally Posted by EpsilonAxis

Ok, let's look at it based on what actually happened...

Lost in 19 seconds to Tua.
Went 1-1-1 with Holyfield (i thought he won 2 of those fights, however).
BEAT Kirk Johnson after Johnson VICIOUSLY lowblowed him 4+ times.
Beat Fres Oquendo convincingly.
Lost to RJJ.
Beat Hasim Rahman convincingly.
Beat Andrew Golota.
NC against Toney who tested positive for drug use.
Lost to Valuev in controversial fashion.
Lost to Chagaev in non-controversial fashion.

NO, here is what REALLY happened

1) Lost to Sergei Kobozev by SD

2) Lost to Danell Nicholson by SD

3) Lost in 19 seconds to Tua

4) Got a somewhat controversial loss a clear win and a somewhat controversial draw against Holyfield, where a lot of people thought Holy won. In the clear win, many people felt Holy´s low blow was a legal body shot. Ruiz did not get penaltized for throwing an admittedly low blow in retaliation.

5) Beat Kirk Johnson by DQ where most people feel Ruiz faked at least some of the low blows

6) Got OWNED and SCHOOLED by Roy Jones

7) Beat a pretty out of shape Rahman in a horrible hugfest.

Beat Oquendo in a terrible hugfest

9) Got a really shameless gift decision against Golota, in a fight he was floored at least once legitimately. A poll on this form had 80% of posters saying Golota should have won the fight.

11) Got outboxed, OWNED and SCHOOLED by a fat James Toney, but got the belt back when Toney was found to have used illegal substances

12) Lost to Valuev by a disputed decision

13) Lost a close but not so disputed fight with Chagaev

[Feiti]

Originally Posted by Zakman

He didn't just cheat his opponents of their opportunity to win within the rules, he cheated the fans of the boxing matches they paid to see!!

That is mostly true, but I certainly didn´t feel cheated watching the fights where Ruiz got his ass handed to him (and did not get a gift decision). The dislike I had for Ruiz made Ruiz-Toney as maybe the most enjoyable match I´ve ever watched! I really should get the Ruiz-Jones fight somewhere. Would make my day.

[Feiti]

Ruiz resume is not really that impressive just because he fought good opposition. He lost to about half the good fighters he faced. This is just looking at the record, regardless of unfair decisions or illegal tactics in fights.

Major wins:
1) Holyfield
2) Golota
3) Johnson
4) Oquendo
5) Rahman
6) Thunder
7) Tucker

Major losses:
1) Holyfield
2) Tua
3) Valuev
4) Chagaev
5) Jones
6) Nicholson
7) Kobozev

Pair that with the fact that many of Ruiz´s wins were close, unimpressive or simply unfair - his resume is not that good at all.

[kg0208]

Originally Posted by Cooke

and rjj is given a lot of kudos for beating this guy.

Of course he is. Ruiz was a handpicked titleholder....lets say he was.

WHO CARES. He was still A) a title holder...weakest of them or not B) MUCH larger than Jones who was a small LHW to begin with and really a SMW

Jones being held to a higher standard here. Let me tell you, if Hopkins had moved up years ago and beaten Ruiz, no one would be talking about "Handpicked" or anything else.

[A-50]

Originally Posted by kg0208

Of course he is. Ruiz was a handpicked titleholder....lets say he was.

WHO CARES. He was still A) a title holder...weakest of them or not B) MUCH larger than Jones who was a small LHW to begin with and really a SMW

Jones being held to a higher standard here. Let me tell you, if Hopkins had moved up years ago and beaten Ruiz, no one would be talking about "Handpicked" or anything else.

Because Bhop did not handpick 99% of the fighters he faced like Jones did.

[kg0208]

Originally Posted by A-50

Because Bhop did not handpick 99% of the fighters he faced like Jones did.

Proof? Other than your opinion? Cuz Hopkins best wins did come against guys who started much smaller than he did right? And Hopkins reigned over a division just as weak if not weaker than Jones LHW division right?

How bout some proof A-50? Got any? Any at ALL?

[Zakman]

Originally Posted by Feiti

Ruiz resume is not really that impressive just because he fought good opposition. He lost to about half the good fighters he faced. This is just looking at the record, regardless of unfair decisions or illegal tactics in fights.


Pair that with the fact that many of Ruiz´s wins were close, unimpressive or simply unfair - his resume is not that good at all.

Exactly. People tout Ruiz's resume, but it is really not that great at all - particularly considering that this is one of the most mediocre eras in HW history.

Truthfully, when you look historically, Ruiz is probably the least talented fighter to ever hold a HW title belt - which is why he had to cheat to get it!