Boxing  

Forum Home Boxing Forum European British Classic Aussie MMA Training
Go Back   Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 08-18-2009, 01:11 PM   #31
teeto
Undisputed Champion
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Team Ireland Manor, Easing Pabuiao into the life of managing the GOAT
Posts: 14,048
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcvey View Post
Rocky starts well but when he gets to close quarters he slips on the pile of shit Wlad has just dropped and severely sprains his ankle.
Rocky tries to make a fight of it ,but hampered by being a stationary target he ships countless jabs ,after 9rds of one way traffic Wlad gets brave and lands some big stuff,in the 14th a cut and bleeding Marciano is saved by the referee .
teeto is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 08-18-2009, 01:21 PM   #32
ChrisPontius
March 8th, 1971
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Holland
Posts: 9,643
vCash: 238
Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuzieQ49 View Post
Difference is his while Marciano is unproven against this type of fighter...Wlad already proved in the brewster purrity and even peter fight he is highly incapable against vastly inferior relentless punchers in the mold of a marciano. While Marciano is unproven...Wlad has technically proven a failure.
And again, i can say that because Rocky was down on the cards against Walcott and nearly even with Charles in their first matches after the 12th, he proved to be highly incapable of handling a bigger, stronger and harder hitting boxer in Wlad.




Cross trainer asked whether Marciano would carry his power up against superheavyweights. I don't really question that so much, but what i do question, is how well he carries his punching power up to a 6'6 target. He's really going to have to take Wlad out of there with a handful of shots, because i honestly can't see him landing enough to wear Wlad down. Wlad's holding on the inside and oustanding outside-game will make it extremely difficult to do that.

Like Magoo said, Marciano is in another league greatness-wise, but might be out of his league in a head to head sense. Certainly, looking at the dimenions and knowing that Wlad carries his athletic ability unlike most superheavies, it's not really that fair a matchup.
ChrisPontius is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2009, 03:03 PM   #33
MRBILL
Undisputed Champion
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 10,559
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

Wlad's chin is glass, but Marciano cannot reach Wlad's chin............ Wlad sharp-shoots from outside and picks Rocco to pieces............ Rocco's a blood pulp after 8 rds....... Fight stopped.. Rocco needs a blood transfusion in order to remain alive......


MR.BILL
MRBILL is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2009, 03:16 PM   #34
Dempsey1238
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 5,015
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

Quote:
Originally Posted by MRBILL View Post
Wlad's chin is glass, but Marciano cannot reach Wlad's chin............ Wlad sharp-shoots from outside and picks Rocco to pieces............ Rocco's a blood pulp after 8 rds....... Fight stopped.. Rocco needs a blood transfusion in order to remain alive......


MR.BILL

Rocky can reach it, all he needs to do is jump land the hook and Wlad is out.
Dempsey1238 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2009, 03:33 PM   #35
janitor
P4P King
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 21,080
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

Quote:
Originally Posted by cross_trainer View Post
Well, he took massive shots from a 245 pound man who's known as an incredibly hard puncher. Marciano got dropped by Walcott and Moore who, whatever their merits as hitters, were not remotely in Klitschko's league.
I am coming to the conclusion that far too much is being made of the current genaration of 220 lb+ heavyweights as checkers of shins and far too many apologies are being made for those who crumble against them.

History seems to suggest that they do not represent the gold standard test of a chin that is often made out.

To give you just one example of this George Foreman was knocked out by Muhamad Ali and dropped by Jimmy Young neither of who were hard hitters but both of who had exelent speed and delivery. When he comes back in his 40s these so called heavyweight monsters of the 90s couldn't make a dent in his chin.

Speed and delivery beat size and power every day of the week and twice on Sundays.

I think that the shot that Walcott hit Marciano with would present a much stronger test of his chin than the slow predictable punches that the current crop of heavyweights throw. I think that it might well have been a more formidable missile than the shot that Hassim Ramhan used to put Lennox Lewis to sleep.
janitor is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2009, 03:57 PM   #36
SuzieQ49
Undisputed Champion
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Martha's Vineyard
Posts: 13,435
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

Quote:
I don't really question that so much, but what i do question, is how well he carries his punching power up to a 6'6 target.
I don't know why so much is made of Marciano's height. Tyson at 5'11 was the same height as marciano and had no trouble landing on 6'6 fighters....David tua only 5'9 2" shorter, does anyone seriosely think he wouldn't be able to hit Wladimir? Now take Carmine Vingo for example. Good Prospect, of course nothing like wladimir. However he was 6'4. Is it a coincidence the most damage Rocky ever did to a fighters face happened to be 6'4? IMO, rocky like tyson felt very comfortable punching up with leverage, since he was so used to it most of his career. Johnny Skhor, a tough journeyman fighter in the Ross Purrity mold. 6'5 too. Skhor got beaten up so badly he never fought again..apparently Marciano crashed hooks and Suzy Q's on his jaw all night long. Now Skhor and Vingo do not compare to Wlad as fighters, but there Height is similiar. That is your question isnt it? If rocky can reach wladimirs chin? Honestly Chris, I think Charlie Goldman built Rocky's whole style on being able to fight taller bigger fighters. Thats why he told rocky "if your small, fight small" and developed him a crouch and taught him how to punch up with leverage. Now in retrospect, Marciano during his hey dey did not run into alot of taller bigger sluggers like Charlie Goldman probably thought he would...but the ones he did run into like 6'1-6'2 fighters Layne and Louis he Destroyed.


Wladimir on the otherhand never fought tyson or tua, Marcianos closest stylistic foes so we do not know how he would do. The closest thing Wladimir did fight to marciano in terms of Power, relentlessness, and durability....Lamon Brewster knocked him out! I know both you and I are big Wladdy fans....but lets face it. He has not proven to either of us yet he is capable of handily beating a relentless world class puncher, and until he does so I think it is unrealistic to pick him over an ATG heavyweigth puncher(Louis, dempsey, liston, foreman, marciano, frazier, tyson). I would be heavily inclined however to pick him over any Sub 200lb ATG "Boxer Stylist" who ever lived, and I think he could have even beaten Larry holmes and Jack Johnson the way he is fighting.

Quote:
because i honestly can't see him landing enough to wear Wlad down

But thats just the thing. Wladimir has a weak enough chin and rocky has enough power that all he needs to do is land 1 or 2 good punches and wlad will crumble...then perhaps go into panic attack mode.


Quote:
Like Magoo said, Marciano is in another league greatness-wise, but might be out of his league in a head to head sense. Certainly, looking at the dimenions and knowing that Wlad carries his athletic ability unlike most superheavies, it's not really that fair a matchup.

Just curious...do you think Jack Dempsey is out of Wladimir's league in a head to head sense? I happen to think out of all heavyweight champions, no one on film is more sucseptible to a STRAIGHT right hand than Jack Dempsey, and he showed durablility issues vs Firpo, Flynn, Sharkey, Tunney, and Carpentier. Yet I would be willing to bet you pick Dempsey over Wlad without a second thought.






Quote:
And again, i can say that because Rocky was down on the cards against Walcott and nearly even with Charles in their first matches after the 12th, he proved to be highly incapable of handling a bigger, stronger and harder hitting boxer in Wlad.
The difference is Rocky WON those tests, where as Wladimir LOST his tests against relentless punchers. The fact Rocky never lost proves we do not know what it takes to beat him. Wlad on the otherhand, we KNOW what it takes to beat him.

Last edited by SuzieQ49; 08-18-2009 at 04:25 PM.
SuzieQ49 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2009, 04:19 PM   #37
MRBILL
Undisputed Champion
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 10,559
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

I don't give a duck in a pond........ Marciano was not the animal Tyson of '86 thru '89 was............. Tyson had combos' with hand speed that blurred, along with wicked power........... Rocky Marciano would NOT do well with "Gifted" boxer / punchers who were 6' 3" to 6' 6" tall and 210 to 250 pounds or more........ SCREW VINGO!!!

MR.BILL
MRBILL is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2009, 04:19 PM   #38
Mr Butt
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: out preaching for the church of benn
Posts: 6,584
vCash: 1054
Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

marciano would land enough punches to score a come from behind ko
Mr Butt is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2009, 04:21 PM   #39
MRBILL
Undisputed Champion
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 10,559
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

Once D'Amato, Jimmy Jacobs and Kevin Rooney were either dead or fired, Mike Tyson began to decline pretty rapidly......... When Don King and Tyson's homies took control, Tyson was basically done........ BUT! Prior to 1990, Tyson was an animal......

MR.BILL
MRBILL is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2009, 04:24 PM   #40
SuzieQ49
Undisputed Champion
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Martha's Vineyard
Posts: 13,435
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

Yes we know he was an animal. Tyson would knockout any version of Foreman including that fat piece of crap version we saw in the 1990s.
SuzieQ49 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2009, 05:16 PM   #41
PetethePrince
Slick & Redheaded
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 14,396
vCash: 1200
Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

I reserve Marciano of 1952. In a 12 round fight I'm more torn. Wlad stands a chance to jab clinch jab. The thing is though, Marciano is harder to hit with the jab than he appears to be. And he crouches low which will be an other disadvantage for Wlad. I think Suzie outline the fight rather perfectly, especially being specific on their strengths and weaknesses. In a 15 round fight I go with Marciano with much more confidence. In a 12 round fight I think it's tough to call. I'd expect Rocky to put even more pressure since its less rounds. I will say this... the 55 version of Marciano loses against Wlad. The 52-53/54 version would have a much better chance.

I'm going to go with Marciano here. His crouch puts Wlad out bad odds. And Wlad's attack is rather simplistic 1-2. He doesn't go risking and doesn't engage hugely. If he does, he is even more prone to panic. Wlad's weak chin and durability and disdain for pressure leave me with picking Marciano. I think Marciano stops him late or wins a decision. The thing is Marciano is much faster with than people believe around 52. Most are prone to his Charles and Moore fights. Marciano could snap some powerful quick combos. I think Wlad's height and inevitability to exchange near the corners would be disastrous for him. Walcott can pull it off with his defense and cutesy tricky style and even that was dangerous. He got nicked, but Wlad would got torn to the body and Marciano would go back to the head and pummel Wlad. I'm going with Rocky here. I also think Dempsey has a good chance here. While I think a fight with the other brother is another story. I really like Marciano's chin to hang in when he needs to. Wlad's best shot is a decision win. In 15 rounds he comes out a loser with his only shot at being a KO. Does he have the aggressiveness or confidence to do so? Doubtful.
PetethePrince is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2009, 06:56 PM   #42
djanders
Contender
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: United States
Posts: 1,156
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

Rocky Marciano would win, by knockout...in my opinion.
djanders is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2009, 06:57 PM   #43
ChrisPontius
March 8th, 1971
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Holland
Posts: 9,643
vCash: 238
Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuzieQ49 View Post
Yes we know he was an animal. Tyson would knockout any version of Foreman including that fat piece of crap version we saw in the 1990s.
In the compliment giving mood again around you?
ChrisPontius is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2009, 07:16 PM   #44
Unforgiven
Undisputed Champion
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 12,575
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

Klitschko fights these guys who dont even try to win and he makes it look a chore, or at least it's a chore for me to watch. I just find it hard to imagine him in with an intense fighter like Rocky Marciano.
And any time I hear that crap about tall fighters v. short fighters "he wont even be able to reach his chin" I know it's crap. Guys a foot shorter than Valuev find his chin often, and both Klitschko brothers have been hit by guys much shorter than them too. If Rocky was just a 5'10" plodder with no strategy, no greatness and no fire in his belly then maybe that would be a valid statement but that's not the case. When you put a great fighter like Rocky in the ring with anyone you better acknowledge that he will have his moments at some point of the fight, whoever he's fighting. The thing is, with Wladimir klitschko I think Rocky's moment would spell the beginning of the end.
Unforgiven is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2009, 08:06 PM   #45
Fighting Weight
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Haye is the HW Willie Pep!
Posts: 7,722
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

Quote:
Originally Posted by janitor View Post
I am coming to the conclusion that far too much is being made of the current genaration of 220 lb+ heavyweights as checkers of shins and far too many apologies are being made for those who crumble against them.

History seems to suggest that they do not represent the gold standard test of a chin that is often made out.

To give you just one example of this George Foreman was knocked out by Muhamad Ali and dropped by Jimmy Young neither of who were hard hitters but both of who had exelent speed and delivery. When he comes back in his 40s these so called heavyweight monsters of the 90s couldn't make a dent in his chin.

Speed and delivery beat size and power every day of the week and twice on Sundays.

I think that the shot that Walcott hit Marciano with would present a much stronger test of his chin than the slow predictable punches that the current crop of heavyweights throw. I think that it might well have been a more formidable missile than the shot that Hassim Ramhan used to put Lennox Lewis to sleep.
Great post....of course another good example would be Henry Cooper almost KO'ing Ali whilst bigger, harder hitting guys couldn't put a dent in his chin.

As for old WALDO V Marciano, I've just got that image of WALDO turning his back on Sam Peter in my mind....I wonder what he'd do against Marciano's rough-housing? That youtube video of the boxer running across the ring and trying to jump over the top rope to escape springs instantly to mind.

Much as I hate all the Klit-lovers I'd actually give the guy a chance against guys that were content to just box, I give him next to no chance against relentless animals though, and that's what Marciano was. Rocky by KO, and I reckon it'd come quickly too - inside 3 rounds.
Fighting Weight is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Reply

Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump





All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:44 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Boxing News 24 Forum 2013