Ray Robinson NOT top five all-time

Manassa · 08-23-2009, 03:19 PM

I'm talking about a pound-for-pound list. He doesn't deserve to be there, hasn't got the record:

Joe Ghnouly
Pete Lello
Maxie Shapiro
Maxie Berger
Norman Rubio x2
Tony Motisi
Reuben Shank
Izzy Jannazzo x4
Ralph Zannelli
Sheik Rangel
Tommy Bell x2
George Costner x2
Jose Basora x2
Jimmy McDaniels
Cecil Hudson x2
Georgie Abrams
Jimmy Doyle
Bernard Docusen
Vic Dellicurti
Steve Belloise
Aaron Wade
Ray Barnes
Robert Villemain x2
Charley Fusari
Bobby Dykes
Holly Mims
Artie Levine
Cyrille Delanoit
Rocky Castellani
Denny Moyer
Hans Stretz
Ralph Dupas

Sammy Angott x3
Fritzie Zivic x2
Jake LaMotta x5
Henry Armstrong
Kid Gavilan x2
Carl Olson x4
Randolph Turpin
Rocky Graziano
Gene Fullmer
Carmen Basilio

Note: all fighters listed were rated in the RING's top ten at one point or another. Fighters in bold are Hall of Famers.

PowerPuncher · 08-23-2009, 03:22 PM

The thing is they weren't all top10 rated when he fought them, ie Aaron Wade was retired pretty much

He hasnt got the best resume, that doesnt mean he isnt the best

Manassa · 08-23-2009, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PowerPuncher

The thing is they weren't all top10 rated when he fought them, ie Aaron Wade was retired pretty much

That's true, which is why I always put a disclaimer with these things. But I prefer to list them like this because nowadays a 'name' fighter might be someone who was rated in the past. If WALDO, for instance, beat up a comebacking Hasim Rahman now, it'd probably be seen as significant. So I make sure to list all the oldies' 'name' fighters too, just to make it fair if anyone were to compare.

Flea Man · 08-23-2009, 03:29 PM

I disagree. That's due to two reasons, and Manassa as you have always been courteous to me I will explain for you and hopefully avoid being flamed

I pretty much go from Joe Louis onwards. I'd say around the 30's to now. This being because this is when I feel 'modern technique' really started. I understand this is a totally subjective reason but I hope you understand my reasoning.

The 2nd being because I rank not only on resume but skillset/ability. For me, Robinson not only has an impressive resume but also looks absolutely fantastic.

Ezzard Charles runs him close, but I have Duran at no.2 and Armstrong at no.3. I have Charles 4th and Jofre 5th. My list always changes mind, and I don't think anyone will ever be able to make a conclusive list as........well there's always a new piece of information that comes up and so many fighters have very good resumes. When you get to 20 onwards it's pretty hard to decide although I have a pretty tight top 30. Sure it will change if I look at it again so best to look at it in a year and laugh and whatever naievities (SPELLING???) I had or glaring omissions I made

My2Sense · 08-23-2009, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manassa

I'm talking about a pound-for-pound list. He doesn't deserve to be there, hasn't got the record:

Joe Ghnouly
Pete Lello
Maxie Shapiro
Maxie Berger
Norman Rubio x2
Tony Motisi
Reuben Shank
Izzy Jannazzo x4
Ralph Zannelli
Sheik Rangel
Tommy Bell x2
George Costner x2
Jose Basora x2
Jimmy McDaniels
Cecil Hudson x2
Georgie Abrams
Jimmy Doyle
Bernard Docusen
Vic Dellicurti
Steve Belloise
Aaron Wade
Ray Barnes
Robert Villemain x2
Charley Fusari
Bobby Dykes
Holly Mims
Artie Levine
Cyrille Delanoit
Rocky Castellani
Denny Moyer
Hans Stretz
Ralph Dupas

Sammy Angott x3
Fritzie Zivic x2
Jake LaMotta x5
Henry Armstrong
Kid Gavilan x2
Carl Olson x4
Randolph Turpin
Rocky Graziano
Gene Fullmer
Carmen Basilio

What's wrong with that record?

TheGreatA · 08-23-2009, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by My2Sense

What's wrong with that record?

That's what I was thinking.

Manassa says Robinson isn't top 5 and then presents a huge list of contenders, champions and hall of famers that he beat.

Sweet Pea · 08-23-2009, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheGreatA

That's what I was thinking.

Manassa says Robinson isn't top 5 and then presents a huge list of contenders, champions and hall of famers that he beat.

Yeah, really.

Bokaj · 08-23-2009, 03:48 PM

I actually thought he was ironic when I saw that statement combined with the list of Robinson's many impressive wins.

No one in their right mind can say it's wrong to have Robinson in the top 5.

Manassa · 08-23-2009, 03:52 PM

I was only joking.

Flea Man · 08-23-2009, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manassa

I was only joking.

GPater11093 · 08-23-2009, 03:59 PM

i knew you was joking but you confused me for a minute

thats some good list

jyuza · 08-23-2009, 04:07 PM

Nice one Manassa lol

Bill Butcher · 08-23-2009, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by My2Sense

What's wrong with that record?

Was thinking the same thing.

Bokaj · 08-23-2009, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manassa

I was only joking.

Stands to reason. But your second post threw me. You're a tricky one it seems...

janitor · 08-23-2009, 05:30 PM

Is Robinson the best pound 4 pound fighter of all time?

No in my opinion.

Would he make a top 5 list?

I think yes.

08-23-2009, 03:19 PM	#1
Manassa - East Side Guru Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: ESB since '05 Posts: 9,775 vCash: 75	Ray Robinson NOT top five all-time I'm talking about a pound-for-pound list. He doesn't deserve to be there, hasn't got the record: Joe Ghnouly Pete Lello Maxie Shapiro Maxie Berger Norman Rubio x2 Tony Motisi Reuben Shank Izzy Jannazzo x4 Ralph Zannelli Sheik Rangel Tommy Bell x2 George Costner x2 Jose Basora x2 Jimmy McDaniels Cecil Hudson x2 Georgie Abrams Jimmy Doyle Bernard Docusen Vic Dellicurti Steve Belloise Aaron Wade Ray Barnes Robert Villemain x2 Charley Fusari Bobby Dykes Holly Mims Artie Levine Cyrille Delanoit Rocky Castellani Denny Moyer Hans Stretz Ralph Dupas Sammy Angott x3 Fritzie Zivic x2 Jake LaMotta x5 Henry Armstrong Kid Gavilan x2 Carl Olson x4 Randolph Turpin Rocky Graziano Gene Fullmer Carmen Basilio Note: all fighters listed were rated in the RING's top ten at one point or another. Fighters in bold are Hall of Famers.
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08-23-2009, 03:22 PM	#2
PowerPuncher ESB Junkie East Side VIP Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 30,707 vCash: 1000	Re: Ray Robinson NOT top five all-time The thing is they weren't all top10 rated when he fought them, ie Aaron Wade was retired pretty much He hasnt got the best resume, that doesnt mean he isnt the best Last edited by PowerPuncher; 08-23-2009 at 03:51 PM.
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08-23-2009, 03:29 PM	#4
Flea Man มวยสากล East Side VIP Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: @ferociousflea Posts: 44,045 vCash: 75	Re: Ray Robinson NOT top five all-time I disagree. That's due to two reasons, and Manassa as you have always been courteous to me I will explain for you and hopefully avoid being flamed I pretty much go from Joe Louis onwards. I'd say around the 30's to now. This being because this is when I feel 'modern technique' really started. I understand this is a totally subjective reason but I hope you understand my reasoning. The 2nd being because I rank not only on resume but skillset/ability. For me, Robinson not only has an impressive resume but also looks absolutely fantastic. Ezzard Charles runs him close, but I have Duran at no.2 and Armstrong at no.3. I have Charles 4th and Jofre 5th. My list always changes mind, and I don't think anyone will ever be able to make a conclusive list as........well there's always a new piece of information that comes up and so many fighters have very good resumes. When you get to 20 onwards it's pretty hard to decide although I have a pretty tight top 30. Sure it will change if I look at it again so best to look at it in a year and laugh and whatever naievities (SPELLING???) I had or glaring omissions I made
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08-23-2009, 03:48 PM	#8
Bokaj Undisputed Champion East Side VIP Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 12,295 vCash: 1000	Re: Ray Robinson NOT top five all-time I actually thought he was ironic when I saw that statement combined with the list of Robinson's many impressive wins. No one in their right mind can say it's wrong to have Robinson in the top 5.
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08-23-2009, 03:52 PM	#9
Manassa - East Side Guru Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: ESB since '05 Posts: 9,775 vCash: 75	Re: Ray Robinson NOT top five all-time I was only joking.
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08-23-2009, 03:59 PM	#11
GPater11093 Barry East Side VIP Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Scotland Posts: 26,115 vCash: 836	Re: Ray Robinson NOT top five all-time i knew you was joking but you confused me for a minute thats some good list
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08-23-2009, 04:07 PM	#12
jyuza Belt holder ESB Addict Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 3,266 vCash: 1000	Re: Ray Robinson NOT top five all-time Nice one Manassa lol
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08-23-2009, 05:30 PM	#15
janitor P4P King East Side VIP Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 19,020 vCash: 1000	Re: Ray Robinson NOT top five all-time Is Robinson the best pound 4 pound fighter of all time? No in my opinion. Would he make a top 5 list? I think yes.
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