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Old 09-21-2007, 03:07 PM   #31
sean
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Default Re: Analysis- Taylor vs Pavlik

taylor is the better fighter technically/has better fundamentals than pavlik and better defense than pavlik.

i still pick pavlik though.

sometimes it is not about skill/speed/abilty.

it is about heart and will to win.

at this moment in time taylor does not come across as a fighter who is prepared to put himself 100% on the line , do anything and everything no matter what it takes to get the win, but wants to just go through the motions and nick rounds without taking risks.


pavlik on the other hand does strike me as a fighter prepared to go through hell as long as he gets the W.

many many times it is the fighter with the greater fire in his belly who wins fights, rather than the better boxer.

i beleive pavlik in this fight will show such fire and do not beleive taylor will be prepared to match him blow for blow but will try to do what he has been doing and nick it.

taylor backing off v ouma and wright allowing himself to be dictated to , when as the much bigger man it should have been him being the ring general is still fresh in my mind, and unless taylor changes his spots pavlik will do this to taylor as well.

look at the spinks fight, despite emmanuel`s plea`s taylor simply did not want to know.

taylor can win this fight on abilty , i just do not beleive he has the mindset to win it though , so i am going with pavlik .
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Old 09-21-2007, 11:06 PM   #32
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Default Re: Analysis- Taylor vs Pavlik

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Originally Posted by lefthook31
He won on heart against against Hopkins and Taylor, but technically gifted fighters like Tarver, and Mosley couldnt win against either of them?
You are discrediting Taylors boxing ability, its there, just not polished yet to dominate against the better guys like Wright and Hopkins, but still good enough to be competitive with them. Taylor was rushed along in his career, and put in fights he really wasnt ready for, in fact he should have faced a guy with Pavliks skills before ever fighting guys like Hopkins or Wright.
Exactly. The fact that he stood in the centre of the ring with two of the best technicians in boxing says heaps about his boxing ability. A lot here are under rating him severely. I don't think he is great, but better then most seem to think for certain. His biggest problem is that he has glaring weaknesses that take away from his obvious strengths. Still, he is a big middleweight, a strong fighter like Pavlik also.

TO hose who point to WInky backing him up, winky has backed up everyone he has fought in recent times, including BHop, Tito, Mosley. Its what he does. Watch how Pavlik fights in the clip against Thompson. Even against a naturally smaller guy his pressure is not that effective. The reason it was more so against Miranda is because Miranda has no idea how to fight off the back foot.

Jermain can counter punch, and will counter punch against Pavlik.
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Old 09-21-2007, 11:38 PM   #33
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Default Re: Analysis- Taylor vs Pavlik

Quote:
Originally Posted by sean
taylor is the better fighter technically/has better fundamentals than pavlik and better defense than pavlik.

i still pick pavlik though.

sometimes it is not about skill/speed/abilty.

it is about heart and will to win.

at this moment in time taylor does not come across as a fighter who is prepared to put himself 100% on the line , do anything and everything no matter what it takes to get the win, but wants to just go through the motions and nick rounds without taking risks.


pavlik on the other hand does strike me as a fighter prepared to go through hell as long as he gets the W.

many many times it is the fighter with the greater fire in his belly who wins fights, rather than the better boxer.

i beleive pavlik in this fight will show such fire and do not beleive taylor will be prepared to match him blow for blow but will try to do what he has been doing and nick it.

taylor backing off v ouma and wright allowing himself to be dictated to , when as the much bigger man it should have been him being the ring general is still fresh in my mind, and unless taylor changes his spots pavlik will do this to taylor as well.

look at the spinks fight, despite emmanuel`s plea`s taylor simply did not want to know.

taylor can win this fight on abilty , i just do not beleive he has the mindset to win it though , so i am going with pavlik .
I know what your saying. That you have to take the intagibles into account. However, Taylor has something to prove in this one.

Pavlik definitely does have more heart though, which is a big factor in his favour at this point. Taylor is not going to win this one in the trenches. He needs to box and move, box and move if he is to have any chance what so ever.
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Old 09-21-2007, 11:40 PM   #34
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Default Re: Analysis- Taylor vs Pavlik

Quote:
Originally Posted by MSTR
I know what your saying. That you have to take the intagibles into account. However, Taylor has something to prove in this one.

Pavlik definitely does have more heart though, which is a big factor in his favour at this point. Taylor is not going to win this one in the trenches. He needs to box and move, box and move if he is to have any chance what so ever.
He doesn't have the boxing ability or mentality to keep Pavlik off of him for 12 rounds, it doesn't work that way. He's terribly flawed technically, unlike the class of a Mikkel Kessler for a 'boxer puncher' style, who can do this.

Watch and see, it amazes me that you do not recognise this.

Last edited by Thread Stealer; 06-28-2006 at 04:48 PM.
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Old 09-21-2007, 11:42 PM   #35
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Default Re: Analysis- Taylor vs Pavlik

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amsterdam
He doesn't have the boxing ability or mentality to keep Pavlik off of him for 12 rounds, it doesn't work that way. He's terribly flawed technically, unlike the class of a Mikkel Kessler for a 'boxer puncher' style, who can do this.

Watch and see, it amazes me that you do not recognise this.
You are on seek and destroy on every Taylor thread.
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Old 09-21-2007, 11:45 PM   #36
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Default Re: Analysis- Taylor vs Pavlik

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Originally Posted by Toopretty
You are on seek and destroy on every Taylor thread.
Because, Taylor does not warrant his regard, he is FLAWED, a 'B' level operator in comparison to true elite fighters, same goes for Pavlik, only one guy here has the stylistic advantage and that guy is not Jermain Taylor.

Taylor will have 0 success at SMW if he fights real SMW's, though I expect his first bout there after his starching from Pavlik to be against some blown up, light hitting former LMW.

Then he'll automatically get a top 5 ranking, which is bullshit.
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Old 09-22-2007, 12:06 AM   #37
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Default Re: Analysis- Taylor vs Pavlik

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amsterdam
He doesn't have the boxing ability or mentality to keep Pavlik off of him for 12 rounds, it doesn't work that way. He's terribly flawed technically, unlike the class of a Mikkel Kessler for a 'boxer puncher' style, who can do this.

Watch and see, it amazes me that you do not recognise this.
I do see what your saying. But Pavlik has a stack of flaws also. I have never said that Taylor is a great fighter.

I certainly wouldn't pick Taylor to beat Kessler if that is what your are implying.

Pavlik is just average hand speed, average kit of punches. Very orthadox. The only things he really has going for him are his heart, chin and workrate. And even then, his style doesn't really take full advantage of it. Someone like Fenech or Hatton fight to fully use these gifts. Pavlik doesn't, and sits back at boxing range more often then not.

Pavlik is just as beatable as Jermain is.
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Old 09-22-2007, 02:12 AM   #38
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Default Re: Analysis- Taylor vs Pavlik

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Originally Posted by Red Medicine
Taylor is a bitch, and his supporters are just as bad. (Anyone who wants Taylor to win this fight, by default, want people to be turned off by boxing. Taylor makes for boring fights, yet HBO waste all their money promoting him.) I hope Pavlik puts him in a coma.
Wow, another name slinging, newbie.
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Old 09-22-2007, 02:28 AM   #39
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Default Re: Analysis- Taylor vs Pavlik

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Originally Posted by MSTR
I do see what your saying. But Pavlik has a stack of flaws also. I have never said that Taylor is a great fighter.

I certainly wouldn't pick Taylor to beat Kessler if that is what your are implying.

Pavlik is just average hand speed, average kit of punches. Very orthadox. The only things he really has going for him are his heart, chin and workrate. And even then, his style doesn't really take full advantage of it. Someone like Fenech or Hatton fight to fully use these gifts. Pavlik doesn't, and sits back at boxing range more often then not.

Pavlik is just as beatable as Jermain is.
No shit that Pavlik is as beatable as Taylor, just Taylor is not the one to do it due to styles and intangibles.
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Old 09-22-2007, 02:51 AM   #40
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Default Re: Analysis- Taylor vs Pavlik

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Originally Posted by Amsterdam
No shit that Pavlik is as beatable as Taylor, just Taylor is not the one to do it due to styles and intangibles.
Perhaps. I don't really think Pavliks pressure is that effective though, which is what he needs to beat Taylor. If Pavlik fought like a fenech or hatton or someone who really got inside and kept throwing I would pick it for him, but too often he sits back at boxing range. Like i said, this is a close fight iMO. If i am wrong then feel free to bring it up after the fight.
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Old 09-22-2007, 02:51 AM   #41
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Default Re: Analysis- Taylor vs Pavlik

I think Taylor is a more athletic guy than Pavlik, but he will need to be more discipline in order to get the win. He has, in the past, abandoned his fight game despite having his trainer reminding each round what to do, but for some reason, it seems when the bell rings, he goes into his own zone. Pavlik seems to be technically sound & disciplined; he keeps his hands high, he throws his jab, and he throws combinations. In addition, he has good power in both hands. Taylor on the other hand, has wide punches, often leaves his hands down. I think if Taylor sticks to Manny's plan, he can win. If he doesn't, he will loose and possibly get knocked out.

If you look at the Miranda fight vs Pavlik, Pavlik's punches made contact on a regular basis while they were both throwing because his punches were getting there first... wide vs straight punches.
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Old 09-22-2007, 02:52 AM   #42
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Default Re: Analysis- Taylor vs Pavlik

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Medicine
Taylor is a bitch, and his supporters are just as bad. (Anyone who wants Taylor to win this fight, by default, want people to be turned off by boxing. Taylor makes for boring fights, yet HBO waste all their money promoting him.) I hope Pavlik puts him in a coma.
What the **** are you talking about Go play in the middle of traffic
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Old 09-22-2007, 04:31 AM   #43
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Default Re: Analysis- Taylor vs Pavlik

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Originally Posted by Red Medicine
Stop throwing those terms around, fool. And I speak only the truth, regardless of how brutal it may seem to you.

7 post?


Are u Amst's ALT account?

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Old 09-22-2007, 04:48 AM   #44
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Default Re: Analysis- Taylor vs Pavlik

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7 post?


Are u Amst's ALT account?

No, I don't post bullshit, even if he is on the anti-Taylor train.
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