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Old 09-23-2007, 02:43 PM   #46
Bigcat
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Default Re: Larry Holmes

All round package .. a definite top 5.

Fast with 3-4 punch combinations.. Very underrated puncher, good recouperative powers... longevity..

He was very skilled and beat a lot of men who later would become good champs.

The workmans heavyweight.. he came up a very hard route and reigned for a long time..

Respect indeed..
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Old 09-23-2007, 02:59 PM   #47
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Default Re: Larry Holmes

Muhammad Ali is the fastest. Holmes is definitely a candidate for number 2.
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Old 09-23-2007, 03:07 PM   #48
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Default Re: Larry Holmes

Some here seem to want to put Louis up there. Louis was a great many things, but fast was not one of them. I have collected lots of film of him over the past several weeks and they show that he was a plodder. Boxers really messed Louis up, and that proves he wasn't fast.

To be honest, his stock in my eyes has fallen quite a bit because I have now seen so much film and I have been studying the records of his opposition. I used to be in awe of his record and mystique. Only three losses, all to champions. 25 title defenses (26, I have learned). Wow. The books about him are all flattering. But if you take the time study the reality, your own research will knock a lot of the shine off the numbers.

Larry Holmes was better than Joe Louis, and a major reason for this was that he was a hell of a lot faster. Combine speed with Larry's size and ring savvy, along with Louis' chin and porous defense, and Louis is some serious trouble against Holmes. Honestly, I don't think Holmes sees the 15th round, and not because he would be the winner.
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Old 09-23-2007, 03:18 PM   #49
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Default Re: Larry Holmes

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Originally Posted by Robbi
Speed, jab, and ring generalship. Those are the main attributes that Holmes has over Louis. Mind I'm not saying Holmes was light years ahead of Louis in those areas, but when averaging everything out Holmes was more complete across the board.

Ive seen many Louis fights. Schemling I and II, Braddock, Galento, Conn, and many others. Also clips of some, but not the full fights. Not sure many people have Louis' entire career collection on DVD, unlike the access available to Ali and Holmes fights. But I feel Ive seen enough of Louis to make a fair comparison.

Not seen Page v Snipes. I have a couple of thousand fights, but unfortunately thats one that aint in my collection.
The most memorable part of Page/Snipes was when Greg swelled up Renaldo's eye, and then loud heckling from the audience could be heard. "Yo, Adriaaan!....Yo, Aaaadriaaaaan!," courtesy of Hector Camacho and friend.
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Old 09-23-2007, 04:43 PM   #50
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Default Re: Larry Holmes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robbi
Speed, jab, and ring generalship. Those are the main attributes that Holmes has over Louis. Mind I'm not saying Holmes was light years ahead of Louis in those areas, but when averaging everything out Holmes was more complete across the board.

Ive seen many Louis fights. Schemling I and II, Braddock, Galento, Conn, and many others. Also clips of some, but not the full fights. Not sure many people have Louis' entire career collection on DVD, unlike the access available to Ali and Holmes fights. But I feel Ive seen enough of Louis to make a fair comparison.

Not seen Page v Snipes. I have a couple of thousand fights, but unfortunately thats one that aint in my collection.
I actually rate the Louis speed on par with Holmes. It is his most forgotten asset IMO, and i think he had a great jab, a little under Holmes and excellent RG. A bit plodding in the footwork was his only weakness i thought, and it wasn't toooo bad.
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Old 09-24-2007, 02:58 PM   #51
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Default Re: Larry Holmes

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Originally Posted by ozziebattler
Everytime i see a post of yours its you wanking on about your dad...

Fair enough he beat holmes in the amateur days but give it up...

Im sure your extremely proud of your dad and look up to him,but you going on about your dad is like me telling every1 how i dominated players like todd carney,jarrod hayne etc(NOW FAMOUS AUSSIE RUGBY PLAYERS)when we were in our junior days..

Their in the big leagues and im not,and Larry's a legend and your dad aint...

Case closed.....
look pal, ive conceited that larry was the man during his championship reign,and he is a legend no doubt.as far as you saying nick wells isnt a legend your wrong.yes my fathers pro career was indeed a flop but he was without a doubt one of the greatest amateurs ever. 185-18 110kos 72 kos in rd1.larry even wrote in his book that nick wells gave him the worst beating of his life.my father would have been a contender if he would have had the right person guiding him as a young man but he didnt. he was the oldest of 9 children and was left to look after himself.boxing was presented to him in high school and he ran with it.funny you say that he isnt a legend everytime i meet someone they rant and rave about how great my dad was.i m not tooting his horn but i am an advocate of his.nick wells got SCREWED over as a pro PERIOD.until u r absolutly posistive about what you spat off then why even speak.it will always be a question to me what he wouldve been if he did go with lou duva.some reason it bothers everybody here that nick wells beat larry as an amateur twice.and yes again larry holmes was complete animal as a pro.larry also had the right people behind him my father was a young white guy with no guidance and he accomplished a hell of alot as an amateur.
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Old 09-24-2007, 03:46 PM   #52
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Default Re: Larry Holmes

Larry was a more technical boxer than Ali. How ever he never unified, never tired and missed fighting the other champs before Witherspoon took the other title. I dis on him for his Kiddy of the Month club. Norton Holms was a good as it gets.
At the time of Liston, no one ever said he was a plodder....I lost all sorts of money on that man......
Louis cleaned up the divison as a contender.
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Old 11-18-2012, 05:13 PM   #53
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Default Re: Larry Holmes

Holmes was definitely in the top ten, but his speed didn't look faster than some of the 80's crowd, i.e Page and Dokes, for example.
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Old 11-18-2012, 08:23 PM   #54
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Default Re: Larry Holmes

well I think he is top 5 heavyweight, and his speed was his advantage. I think top 5 speed. His jab was and right hand were top notch.
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Old 11-19-2012, 02:32 PM   #55
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Default Re: Larry Holmes

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Originally Posted by Addie View Post
I saw a highlight reel earlier today and I think there might be a case of Larry Holmes being in the top 3 fastest Heavyweights of all time?
He's certainly in top 3 best HW's ever, in my opinion. May have been the most complete HW ever
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Old 11-19-2012, 05:34 PM   #56
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Default Re: Larry Holmes

I have him in my top 10 but I can not overlook the fact that he avoided all the co-champs in his era and unlike the ATG's he never rematch a tough or disputed fight. I can give him a pass for 1-or 2 but there were just too many instances that he avoided a fight he perceived as tough and I have to TAX his legacy because of it. He fought a lot of 10 fight, 13 fight 14 fight and 15-16 fight guys who were green...Its funny how a double standard is used against Dempsey for not fighting Wills and Greb while Larry missed Tate,Dokes,Weaver,Coetzee,Page and Thomas and he even gave up a title not to fight Page who was more cold than he was hot.

Also I feel he should have re-matched the 15 fight Witherspoon and Williams, Norton should have been an immediate rematch but like I said I will give him a pass for a few not being his fault but just too many misses in his ERA...hard to rate him higher than the low end of my top 10

He was the most fit fighter of the era and one of the best jabs I have seen and showed heart getting off the floor vs Shavers,Snipes and Tyson after going down hard but like I said I must tax him for the avoidance of many in one era.
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Old 11-19-2012, 06:07 PM   #57
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Default Re: Larry Holmes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Street Lethal View Post
Some here seem to want to put Louis up there. Louis was a great many things, but fast was not one of them. I have collected lots of film of him over the past several weeks and they show that he was a plodder. Boxers really messed Louis up, and that proves he wasn't fast.

To be honest, his stock in my eyes has fallen quite a bit because I have now seen so much film and I have been studying the records of his opposition. I used to be in awe of his record and mystique. Only three losses, all to champions. 25 title defenses (26, I have learned). Wow. The books about him are all flattering. But if you take the time study the reality, your own research will knock a lot of the shine off the numbers.

Larry Holmes was better than Joe Louis, and a major reason for this was that he was a hell of a lot faster. Combine speed with Larry's size and ring savvy, along with Louis' chin and porous defense, and Louis is some serious trouble against Holmes. Honestly, I don't think Holmes sees the 15th round, and not because he would be the winner.
I strongly dissagree, at least as far as HANDSPEED is concerned. Louis was very swift of hand and if you want proof of this, check out the fury of punches that he put walcott away with. Holmes never finished anyone with punches that fast, he basically pot shotted his opponents.

Holmes definitley had the faster feet, however.
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Old 11-19-2012, 08:16 PM   #58
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Default Re: Larry Holmes

Quote:
=Bummy Davis;14235387]I have him in my top 10 but I can not overlook the fact that he avoided all the co-champs in his era and unlike the ATG's he never rematch a tough or disputed fight. I can give him a pass for 1-or 2 but there were just too many instances that he avoided a fight he perceived as tough and I have to TAX his legacy because of it. He fought a lot of 10 fight, 13 fight 14 fight and 15-16 fight guys who were green...Its funny how a double standard is used against Dempsey for not fighting Wills and Greb while Larry missed Tate,Dokes,Weaver,Coetzee,Page and Thomas and he even gave up a title not to fight Page who was more cold than he was hot.
Um... Bummy.. The thread is about how "fast" the dude was. Not our views of his legacy as a champion.
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Old 11-19-2012, 08:57 PM   #59
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Default Re: Larry Holmes

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Originally Posted by mr. magoo View Post
Um... Bummy.. The thread is about how "fast" the dude was. Not our views of his legacy as a champion.
He had a fast jab with nice pop and some pretty decent foot speed, his combinations were not as effective as Joe Louis or was he as magical as Ali.

Overall he had a pretty fast execution, Mike Tyson was faster with the power combo's

For a big man pretty fast, Vlad for me had the faster right hand after the jab with much more power but Holmes had decent speed but then so did Greg Page, Michael Dokes in his era....Holmes showed nice speed in the Leon Spinks KO ...top 10 in the speed ratings possibly and probably
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Old 11-19-2012, 09:36 PM   #60
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Default Re: Larry Holmes

Holmes was an all time top 10 hwt champion. He like most all others fall well below Louis in overall ability. Holmes did not have Alis overall athleticism or overall speed both of hand and especially feet. Holmes jab was certainly impressive but Alis was quicker and more accurate. Prime vs. prime Ali would outspeed Holmes for a decision win. Alis jab would catch Holmes at all angles while Holmes jab would be slipped as Ali danced side to side. Holmes best punch aside from the jab was his right hand as an uppercut and overhand. However right hands are not the punch to hit prime Ali with. Holmes hook was certainly not his best punch and I don't see it being an effective weapon vs Ali. No knockdowns here but Holmes gets battered as the fight gets into the late rounds.
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