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Old 09-13-2009, 04:46 PM   #1
GPater11093
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Default Old Timers - My View

Right i just watched Johnson vs Burns and i saw this conclusion.

The old time boxing was completly different. The only fighter i have seen that i think could box today at a high level is Ftzsimmons.

There are however afew misconceptions combination punching definitly existed.

Sorry for such a crap opening post but ill get on it tommorow
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Old 09-13-2009, 04:48 PM   #2
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Default Re: Old Timers - My View

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Originally Posted by GPater11093 View Post
Right i just watched Johnson vs Burns and i saw this conclusion.

The old time boxing was completly different. The only fighter i have seen that i think could box today at a high level is Ftzsimmons.

There are however afew misconceptions combination punching definitly existed.

Sorry for such a crap opening post but ill get on it tommorow

He is one of the few I wouldn't give a chance to.

I definitely think Langford would be competitive at Light-Heavy nowadays.

I don't think anyone up to Corbett would do too much.

Jack Johnson I'm not sure about. Footage of him just doesn't impress me to be honest.
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Old 09-13-2009, 04:50 PM   #3
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Default Re: Old Timers - My View

Johnson really dosent impress me either.

Maybe im being harsh on the era because of Johnson i wil study this more
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Old 09-13-2009, 05:05 PM   #4
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Default Re: Old Timers - My View

Jack Johnson mostly fought from the clinch but I think he displayed some good boxing ability in his performance against Fireman Flynn. I understand that Flynn wasn't one of the greatest boxers but Johnson was jabbing him to bits. I guess the one thing you could say about Flynn is that he had his hands up at all times which wasn't ordinary for his day...

From the clinch he could throw punishing uppercuts and combinations but I agree that wouldn't really work under modern rules.

This film is a bit dark so you can't see all of the action very clearly:

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

More highlights:

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2:40
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Old 09-13-2009, 05:54 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by GPater11093 View Post
Johnson really dosent impress me either.

Maybe im being harsh on the era because of Johnson i wil study this more
Two fighters from that period that I think would have adapted verry well to the modern rule set are Tommy Burns and Philadelphia Jack O'Brien.
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Old 09-13-2009, 06:04 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by GPater11093 View Post
Right i just watched Johnson vs Burns and i saw this conclusion.

The old time boxing was completly different. The only fighter i have seen that i think could box today at a high level is Ftzsimmons.

There are however afew misconceptions combination punching definitly existed.

Sorry for such a crap opening post but ill get on it tommorow
Gprater,

Watch Burns vs. anyone else. Burns has some good skills. You'll be surprised.
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Old 09-13-2009, 06:12 PM   #7
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Gprater,

Watch Burns vs. anyone else. Burns has some good skills. You'll be surprised.
Damn right.

Burns is one of the best infighters that I have seen from any era.
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Old 09-13-2009, 06:18 PM   #8
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Default Re: Old Timers - My View

Well i suppose we're all allowed to be opinionated, but if i had to pick just one to do well today (and i hate this topic), it would actually be Johnson. I think he was outright class.

The only thing would be his size in my perception.
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Old 09-14-2009, 08:52 AM   #9
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Default Re: Old Timers - My View

I don't like comparing todays with the likes of Johnson's era as alot of things were different in many aspects.

I consider Johnson to be the greatest defensive Heavyweight of all time. I feel Johnson was years ahead of his time stylistically, he revolutionized boxing footwork, defense, and the concept of ring generalship aswell as mastery of ring science. He also mastered the art of clinch fighting which was one of his best weapons.

Randy Robert makes some good points in his book ''Papa Jack'' “
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Watching the films of Johnson is like listening to a 1900 recording of Enrico Caruso played on a 1910 gramophone. When Johnson fought Burns film was still in its early days, not yet capable of capturing the subtleties of movement. Nuance is lost in the furious and stilted actions of the figures, which move about the screen in Chaplinesque manner, as if some drunken cutter had arbitrarily removed three of every four frames. When we watch fighters of Johnson’s day on film, we wonder how they could be considered even good. That some of them were champions strains credulity. They look like large children, wrestling and cuffing each other, but not actually fighting like real boxers, not at all like Ali captured in zoom-lensed, slow-motion, technological grace. But the films mislead.”
Also conisder the fact that Nat Fleischer who saw Johnson fight and those up to the Ali era, said, in his book Black Dynamite “Jack Johnson boxed on his toes, could block from most any angle, was lightning fast on his feet, could feint an opponent into knots…he possessed everything a champion could hope for punch, speed, brains, cleverness, boxing ability and sharp-shooting.”

Fleischer also reported in 1958, that Johnson’s “mastery of ring science, his ability to block, counter, and feint, are still unexcelled.”
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Old 09-14-2009, 08:58 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by St_Boxing_J12 View Post
I don't like comparing todays with the likes of Johnson's era as alot of things were different in many aspects.

I consider Johnson to be the greatest defensive Heavyweight of all time. I feel Johnson was years ahead of his time stylistically, he revolutionized boxing footwork, defense, and the concept of ring generalship, and he also mastered the art of clinch fighting which was one of his best weapons.

Randy Robert makes some good points in his book ''Papa Jack'' “

Also conisder the fact that Nat Fleischer who saw Johnson fight and those up to the Ali era, said, in his book Black Dynamite “Jack Johnson boxed on his toes, could block from most any angle, was lightning fast on his feet, could feint an opponent into knots…he possessed everything a champion could hope for punch, speed, brains, cleverness, boxing ability and sharp-shooting.”

Fleischer also reported in 1958, that Johnson’s “mastery of ring science, his ability to block, counter, and feint, are still unexcelled.”

I even think with more dedication Johnson could of achieved more, but living the good life which included women, alcohol, and lack of traning contributed to his decline. Johnson once fought in the ring hungover.
what an amazing first post, welcome to the forum
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Old 09-14-2009, 09:10 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by fleaman View Post
what an amazing first post, welcome to the forum
Thanks Mate
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Old 09-14-2009, 09:12 AM   #12
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Default Re: Old Timers - My View

Johnson clinched too much for my liking, but so did Muhammad Ali. But Johnson fought when he was clinching, letting go to fire in uppercuts and body punches.
He was a master at containing an opponent, blocking, smothering an attack, stopping an opponent in his tracks with defensive guile, physical strength and a jolting punch or two.
And Johnson was a big, fit, strong, well-conditioned 208 pounds of sculpted muscle in his prime.
He was a clever, confident, relaxed fighter and whatever gulf in stylistic conventions exists between his day and ours he's probably the kind of fighter who'd adjust to anything within a minute of the opening bell. A natural.
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Old 09-14-2009, 09:20 AM   #13
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Default Re: Old Timers - My View

I agree with St_Boxing and others who say Johnson could do well.

I think with his defensive ability he could do fine in any era...He just was an excellent natural fighter.

I gotta say though, if guys like Mayorga and Virchis, can go alright in this age, then a lot of the best from the early days of boxing would do surprisingly well on their physical ability and toughness alone.
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Old 09-14-2009, 12:20 PM   #14
GPater11093
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Default Re: Old Timers - My View

Burns i think could apadt well

and some of you gus will know i hold alot of the older guys in high regard

i just really dont see Johnson doing good
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