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Old 08-11-2007, 06:07 AM   #46
JohnThomas1
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Default Re: Most physically powerful boxer...

Quote:
Originally Posted by jyuza
Holyfield was strong but he doesn't belong to the 'physically powerful boxer' class.
Plus, allow me to emit some doubts about his cleanless (don't know if that word exists) with all those rumors about ro´ds...
I can't see how Holyfield doesn't belong and Tyson does when he was the stronger as proven.

Rare we disagree, but i don't think Tyson belongs in the category to be honest. Holyfield outmanouvered him thru sheer strength and he was always tied up a little too easy by a smooth operator.

Maybe i am looking at the thread and criteria all wrong.
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Old 08-11-2007, 06:39 AM   #47
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Default Re: Most physically powerful boxer...

Tyson was more powerful than Holyfield.
But Holyfield was far stronger.

The problem with this thread is we are all discussing STRENGTH because (I believe) that was the intention of the thread author, but the word "Powerful" is included in the title and that adds ambiguity.

A girder is strong. But you wouldn't call in powerful.
A shotgun is powerful. But you couldn't build a skyscraper out of shotgun barrels.

Of course, there is plenty of overlap in boxing (and all sports) with demonatrations of power and demonstrations of strength, but there is a distinction.

Powerful in boxing would usually be seen as possessing punching power.

Strength is holding, standing your ground, resistance to pushes, and pushing, pulling and "bulling" the opponent around (most of which requires some degree of power too, of course).

I think demonstrable strength AND power are often both reliant on a lot of TECHNIQUE.
Boxers cannot show their strength without using a technically sound stance, for example. They cannot generally exhibit their power without throwing a technically sound punch.
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Old 09-19-2009, 02:05 PM   #48
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Default Re: Most physically powerful boxer...

Yes.Strength is slightly different to power.

Strength in clinches is as fists of fury stated a subset of wrestling technique and involves understanding of balance and leverage.

Incidentally,I thought Tyson was harder to put a hold on earlier in his career.Witness his fight with Larry Holmes. He seemed to get more passive in the clinches as his career progressed.
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Old 09-19-2009, 02:34 PM   #49
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Default Re: Most physically powerful boxer...

Of the accomplished ones: old Foreman, Tua, Ibeabuchi, Vitaly and perhaps Lewis.

Jeffries and Liston were strong for their times, but they cannot compete with weight lifting (steroid taking?) guys that's 30-40 lbs heavier with little flab.

People naming Marciano in these circumstances makes me want to remove him from my top 10 out of spite. But since the effect of that probably wouldn't be very devastating I'll refrain from it.
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Old 09-19-2009, 02:48 PM   #50
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Default Re: Most physically powerful boxer...

Valuev
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Old 09-19-2009, 03:02 PM   #51
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Default Re: Most physically powerful boxer...

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Originally Posted by fists of fury View Post
It's really impossible to say, because of a variety of factors.

Firstly, manhandling someone in a clinch is as much a test of balance and leverage as pure strength. Punching power is not a good indicator of strength at all.
By definition, a big muscle is a strong muscle, but other factors like tendon strength and natural leverages play a big role.

If all the champions of say, the heavyweight division, were to perform a certain series of lifts such as the squat, bench press, military press, deadlift and barbell row then maybe we'd get a clearer picture of their raw strength in relation to each other.
Even here though, the tall guys like Bowe, Lewis, Carnera etc. with long arms, backs and legs would be at a disadvantage compared to the shorter guys like Marciano, Frazier etc.

In that case, we'd have to include some other strength-related movements like a farmer's walk or something like that. It's really impossible to accurately guage raw strength from one individual to another.

I have heard of some boxers performing rather remarkable feats of strength though. Louie Espinoza was said to be able to bench press 320 lbs. as a featherweight.
Evander Holyfield regularly repped out with 360 lbs. on the bench press and Tyson was said to bench press 240 lbs. as a 14 year old.

Paul Anderson has already been mentioned, but Franco Columbo (2x Mr. Olympia) dabbled in boxing as well, and he could perform a 750 lb. deadlift.
It's not about lifting the most weight. It's about the functional strength here. Guys who lift more than others don't automatically have more raw physicality over other fighters.

For example, a lot of World Strongest Men guys don't have record breaking lifts. Especially the GOAT of WSM in Mariusz. If we were talking just pure strength he would lose even againt predecessors like Bill Kaz.
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Old 09-19-2009, 03:20 PM   #52
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Default Re: Most physically powerful boxer...

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Originally Posted by Bokaj View Post
Of the accomplished ones: old Foreman, Tua, Ibeabuchi, Vitaly and perhaps Lewis.

Jeffries and Liston were strong for their times, but they cannot compete with weight lifting (steroid taking?) guys that's 30-40 lbs heavier with little flab.

People naming Marciano in these circumstances makes me want to remove him from my top 10 out of spite. But since the effect of that probably wouldn't be very devastating I'll refrain from it.

Not sure on the Marciano bit, I seen footage of him tossing bolder/ gaint Rocks around over a hill.

Not roll them down, but pick them up and thown over the hill. He at least has earn a hm imo.
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Old 09-19-2009, 03:25 PM   #53
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Default Re: Most physically powerful boxer...

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Originally Posted by Dempsey1238 View Post
Not sure on the Marciano bit, I seen footage of him tossing bolder/ gaint Rocks around over a hill.

Not roll them down, but pick them up and thown over the hill. He at least has earn a hm imo.
P4P he does, but I think it's highly doubtful he would toss SHWs around like old Foreman did. Those 50+ lbs make a difference against muscle bound weight-lifting guys.
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Old 09-19-2009, 03:30 PM   #54
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Default Re: Most physically powerful boxer...

We never know for sure, these thosos tricky lightheavyweights were beating the gaints of the day though.

But for comparsion, Fraizer failed, in the weight left contest on ABC's world of sports and almost drown in the swimming contest, were Rocky was a pretty good swimmer in his own right for his training.
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Old 09-19-2009, 03:32 PM   #55
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Default Re: Most physically powerful boxer...

I heard that Rahman benches over 500, no way George Foreman or James Jeffries could do that. Tua also comes to mind.
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Old 09-19-2009, 03:42 PM   #56
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Default Re: Most physically powerful boxer...

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Originally Posted by RonnieHornschuh View Post
I heard that Rahman benches over 500, no way George Foreman or James Jeffries could do that. Tua also comes to mind.
How would it help Foreman,Jeffries-or for that matter Rahman-to bench that amount of weight?
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Old 09-19-2009, 03:50 PM   #57
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Default Re: Most physically powerful boxer...

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Originally Posted by Arka View Post
How would it help Foreman,Jeffries-or for that matter Rahman-to bench that amount of weight?
Certainly helps with pushing around guys in the ring.
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Old 09-19-2009, 03:57 PM   #58
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Default Re: Most physically powerful boxer...

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Certainly helps with pushing around guys in the ring.
You think? It'll certainly allow you to give your opponent a stronger hug.
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Old 09-19-2009, 04:18 PM   #59
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Default Re: Most physically powerful boxer...

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The strongest man to ever box professionally was Paul Anderson, who some regard as the strongest man who ever lived.

He had two or three pro fights I believe.

But if we only consider full-time accomplished professionals and elite fighters, I'd say George Foreman stands out as the strongest.

Lewis, Holyfield, Norton, Bruno always showed considerable strength too, but Foreman looked stronger than any of them.
Yes, you're right about Paul Anderson..he had a brief boxing career, but had to be the strongest, technically anyway.
The thing about Foreman when he fought Norton...Norton had the better build in terms of classic bodybuilding, and their standards, but Foreman was more massive (NOT fat), and looked STRONGER than Norton.
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Old 09-19-2009, 04:47 PM   #60
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Default Re: Most physically powerful boxer...

Surprised nobody has at least mentioned Bruno.

Now somebody ridicule my post so I can head back to the lounge with my tail between my legs.
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