boxing
Forum Home Boxing Forum European British Classic Aussie MMA Training
Go Back   Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 09-19-2009, 07:57 PM   #1
fists of fury
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: March for Revenge
Posts: 6,517
vCash: 137
Default What did pre-Steward Lewis do better than post-Steward Lewis?

Is there anything that the pre-Manny Steward of Lennox Lewis (in other words the version trained by Davenport or Correa) did better than the Lewis who trained under Steward?
Obviously Lewis became a better heavyweight overall later in his career, but the question remains...what, if anything, did he do better before?

In addition, how much of his progress as a fighter was down to Steward, and how much of it was down to himself, being older and presumably, wiser?

Pardon the thread title...I made a mess of things.
fists of fury is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 09-19-2009, 08:19 PM   #2
lefthook31
Undisputed Champion
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: in a boxing gym near you
Posts: 10,432
vCash: 1000
Default Re: What did pre-Steward Lewis do better than post-Steward Lewis?

His progess as a true championship pro fighter was 100% because of Steward. The only thing Correa provided was a more exciting version of Lennox Lewis that was a sloppy righthand bomb throwing off balance head hunter.
Steward taught him balance, footwork, and most of all, what it takes to fight through adversity when boxing goes out the window. It was the Mercer fight that Lewis made his transition into manhood.
lefthook31 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2009, 08:43 PM   #3
fists of fury
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: March for Revenge
Posts: 6,517
vCash: 137
Default Re: What did pre-Steward Lewis do better than post-Steward Lewis?

I was thinking about his destruction of Ruddock, and I was thinking what a great performance that was...and that was pre-Steward. He was lighter then, and more mobile...yet he still hit with great power.
That's what got me starting this thread. Unfotunately, I don't have tapes of his earlier fights any longer, and relying on memory can be dangerous.

Lefthook - you don't think the ability to fight under adversity was there all along?
fists of fury is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2009, 08:57 PM   #4
My2Sense
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 5,971
vCash: 1000
Default Re: What did pre-Steward Lewis do better than post-Steward Lewis?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fists of fury View Post
Is there anything that the pre-Manny Steward of Lennox Lewis (in other words the version trained by Davenport or Correa) did better than the Lewis who trained under Steward?
He was more aggressive, although that's a double edged sword; and IMO he seemed a bit quicker, although that was probably the result of generally weighing less.

The one area I would say he definitely declined under Steward was with his left hook. He showed a pretty good left hook in his early career (ie: vs. Weaver, Bruno), but Steward gradually turned him into just a "one-two" fighter and forsook the hook.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fists of fury View Post
In addition, how much of his progress as a fighter was down to Steward, and how much of it was down to himself, being older and presumably, wiser?
I think Lewis' "progress" under Steward gets somewhat overrated. Manny did fine-tune his style, but I don't agree that he improved by leaps and bounds as many people describe it. He still continued to be inconsistent, sometimes lazy and sloppy in his fights, and often ignored the advice Manny gave him in the corner and simply was good enough to win fights regardless.

From the start to finish of his career, Lewis was an inconsistent and unpredictable fighter who only occasionally made full use of his potential. His win over Ruddock under Correa was as good as I've ever seen him look, while his loss to Rahman under Steward was as bad as he's ever looked. Overall he was probably better under Steward than any other trainer, but Lewis' own mentality was the biggest factor in his performances IMO.
My2Sense is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2009, 08:58 PM   #5
gooners!!
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: England
Posts: 5,083
vCash: 1000
Default Re: What did pre-Steward Lewis do better than post-Steward Lewis?

Quote:
His progess as a true championship pro fighter was 100% because of Steward. The only thing Correa provided was a more exciting version of Lennox Lewis that was a sloppy righthand bomb throwing off balance head hunter.
Steward taught him balance, footwork, and most of all, what it takes to fight through adversity when boxing goes out the window. It was the Mercer fight that Lewis made his transition into manhood.

What he said.

Lewis fought measured/patient and less aggressive and dictated with his physical advantages and let it come rather than forcing things. The irony is that Steward wanted him to be more aggressive against Briggs to be a bit more exciting and he got himself wobbled and in trouble in the fight.
gooners!! is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2009, 09:06 PM   #6
lefthook31
Undisputed Champion
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: in a boxing gym near you
Posts: 10,432
vCash: 1000
Default Re: What did pre-Steward Lewis do better than post-Steward Lewis?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fists of fury View Post
I was thinking about his destruction of Ruddock, and I was thinking what a great performance that was...and that was pre-Steward. He was lighter then, and more mobile...yet he still hit with great power.
That's what got me starting this thread. Unfotunately, I don't have tapes of his earlier fights any longer, and relying on memory can be dangerous.

Lefthook - you don't think the ability to fight under adversity was there all along?
Obviously Lewis had a championship heart, but not the knowledge or experience to apply it in a tough fight. Watch the Mercer fight and listen closely to Stewards comments between rounds. Lewis was a premadonna who kept telling Steward to tell the ref that Mercer was doing this or that. He was frustrated because he was confused. His jab wasnt working and Mercer wasnt falling down. It was then that Steward basically yelled at him and told him what he had to do to win. These are the type of fights that define great fighters. Their ability to dig down deep and grind out a win. With that in mind it takes a great cornerman to complete the fighter and push him through, and its not always a name or popular guy but one that clicks with his pupil, but still has a good background of the game. Correa didnt have that with Lewis, Steward did. Steward is also very good at utlizing a fighters best talents, and he knew with Lewis size, jab and right hand he would be more effective boxing at distance, rather than trying to be a righthand crazy banger. If you ever listen to Steward talk about the Mcall fight, he knew exactly how to exploit Lewis's mistake, and told Oliver to throw his righthand at the same time Lewis did, because Lewis telegraphed it so badly that it left him wide open. Mcall had his eyes closed when he threw that shot at Lewis.
As far as the Ruddock fight, while explosive, it was still somewhat technically sloppy. Lewis' balance was not very good at that time.
lefthook31 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2009, 06:41 AM   #7
Unforgiven
Undisputed Champion
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 13,265
vCash: 1000
Default Re: What did pre-Steward Lewis do better than post-Steward Lewis?

Steward (and specifically his input into the fighting ability of Lewis) is laughably overrated.

Personally, I dont rate the guy as the trainer-God almost everyone thinks he is. He's obviously a good self-promoter and a loudmouth abrasive cheerleader type. Maybe he's a psychological asset.

Lennox Lewis was a brilliant fighter BEFORE he had Steward on his team. Firstly, he'd come from an extensive amateur boxing background and been to two Olympic games, losing in the QFs to the eventual winner in '84 and won a gold in '86. He'd powered his way up the pro ranks in 2-3 years. His win over Ruddock still stands as one of his finest, an earlier win over Gary Mason (in his 15th pro fight) was very impressive, he was rated in the top 2 from '92 - '94, had defeated several ranked contenders, had Rid**** Bowe avoiding him. He'd shown immense power, skill, and a general superiority over almost everyone he fought. He was an accomplished seasoned pro, one of the two or three elite fighters active in the division.

People use the "pre-Steward"/"post-Steward" thing to ignore any of the negatives in performance and rough edges in any early Lewis fights, or alibi his loss to McCall. But it doesn't stand up to scrutiny, he had some scruffy, s****py and so-so performances throughout the later part of his career too and Manny Steward was ABSOLUTELY COMPLICIT in Lewis losing to Rahman (a worst defeat than McCall), yet people ignore this !
Steward was going around saying Lewis didn't need to acclimatise to the altitude, that people who travel a lot (Lennox and himself!) dont need to worry about that ! Steward was messing around training new fighters (Naseem Hamed, who got pounded by MAB with Steward in his corner!) a fortnight before the Rahman fight, and he and Lewis were out in LA filming Ocean's Eleven !
****, if Pepe Corea pulled that stunt you'd all be calling him a clown and crucifyng him !
But everyone kisses Manny Steward's ass. It's sad.
Unforgiven is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2009, 06:48 AM   #8
Unforgiven
Undisputed Champion
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 13,265
vCash: 1000
Default Re: What did pre-Steward Lewis do better than post-Steward Lewis?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lefthook31 View Post
If you ever listen to Steward talk about the Mcall fight, he knew exactly how to exploit Lewis's mistake, and told Oliver to throw his righthand at the same time Lewis did, because Lewis telegraphed it so badly that it left him wide open.
Yeah, but who didn't know that ?
It was a common criticism of Lewis that every journalist and TV pundit had mentioned over and over again, he telegraphs his right, he "hand-grenades" it, and he's got awkward footing. Everyone knows that a telegraphed punch can be expoited by a straight one thrown at the same time, and with enough power, accuracy and good timing can prove decisive.
Ok, I'll credit McCall for exploiting it so decisively, and Steward for preparing him right, but it wasn't any genius on Manny's part to know that was a weakness worth exploiting.
Unforgiven is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2009, 08:53 AM   #9
lefthook31
Undisputed Champion
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: in a boxing gym near you
Posts: 10,432
vCash: 1000
Default Re: What did pre-Steward Lewis do better than post-Steward Lewis?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unforgiven View Post
Yeah, but who didn't know that ?
It was a common criticism of Lewis that every journalist and TV pundit had mentioned over and over again, he telegraphs his right, he "hand-grenades" it, and he's got awkward footing. Everyone knows that a telegraphed punch can be expoited by a straight one thrown at the same time, and with enough power, accuracy and good timing can prove decisive.
Ok, I'll credit McCall for exploiting it so decisively, and Steward for preparing him right, but it wasn't any genius on Manny's part to know that was a weakness worth exploiting.
Steward corrected those mistakes, Correa overlooked them. Thats what fine tuning does for a great fighter, it makes them dominant. The skills have to be there, but Steward has proved he is leagues above his peers.
I also think there was a clear difference in Lewis style after he looked up with Steward. As far as the Rahman fight, that was based more on poor preparation. Lewis was not in the greatest shape, arrived late in South Africa and didnt take the fight seriously, but still his consistency with Steward was far better than the shaky moments he had with Correa.
Lewis looked ordinary against Bruno was knocked out a few fights later against Mcall, which was really his initial descent into fighting the top fighters. With Steward he was dominant on the top level for a good period of time before getting stopped by Rahman.
lefthook31 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2009, 09:36 AM   #10
Unforgiven
Undisputed Champion
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 13,265
vCash: 1000
Default Re: What did pre-Steward Lewis do better than post-Steward Lewis?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lefthook31 View Post
As far as the Rahman fight, that was based more on poor preparation. Lewis was not in the greatest shape, arrived late in South Africa and didnt take the fight seriously
Yes, and Steward was party to all of that. Preparation is everything.
Steward was in LA making films with Lennox ! What does this guy have to do to get his due criticism ??
Steward didn't take the fight seriously.
And he was in Vegas preparing Hamed to lose to Barrera.

Steward is a good trainer, but there are dozens of unsung trainers who are just as good as him, he's simply a name that people like to throw around as if they really know what goes on behind closed doors, and he's made a good reputation for himself. He's outspoken.
Taking fighters who are already at the top of the game and having them remain successful or improve a little is VERY overrated. It's rife is all sports, these super-trainers who seem to command huge sums whether they deliver or not and are master of self-promotion.
Unforgiven is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2009, 09:42 AM   #11
Unforgiven
Undisputed Champion
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 13,265
vCash: 1000
Default Re: What did pre-Steward Lewis do better than post-Steward Lewis?

And if this isn't an example of technical deficiency and sloppy mistakes then I dont know what is ........

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

Yes, bad preparation. Bad technique. Simply lack of practice, and a TOTAL DISREGARD from his trainer to have him physical and technically prepared.
Lewis is doing more wrong there than he did against McCall.

There's one rule for Corea and one for Steward, methinks.
Unforgiven is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2009, 01:00 PM   #12
PowerPuncher
P4P King
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 20,726
vCash: 1000
Default Re: What did pre-Steward Lewis do better than post-Steward Lewis?

Lewis was in his physical prime pre-Steward, his skills developed under Steward but he was already near his best, Steward takes allot of credit for someone who had already gone through Rudduck, Bruno, Tucker, Mason in very impressive fashion
PowerPuncher is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2009, 02:10 PM   #13
fists of fury
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: March for Revenge
Posts: 6,517
vCash: 137
Default Re: What did pre-Steward Lewis do better than post-Steward Lewis?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unforgiven View Post
Steward (and specifically his input into the fighting ability of Lewis) is laughably overrated.

Personally, I dont rate the guy as the trainer-God almost everyone thinks he is. He's obviously a good self-promoter and a loudmouth abrasive cheerleader type. Maybe he's a psychological asset.

Lennox Lewis was a brilliant fighter BEFORE he had Steward on his team. Firstly, he'd come from an extensive amateur boxing background and been to two Olympic games, losing in the QFs to the eventual winner in '84 and won a gold in '86. He'd powered his way up the pro ranks in 2-3 years. His win over Ruddock still stands as one of his finest, an earlier win over Gary Mason (in his 15th pro fight) was very impressive, he was rated in the top 2 from '92 - '94, had defeated several ranked contenders, had Rid**** Bowe avoiding him. He'd shown immense power, skill, and a general superiority over almost everyone he fought. He was an accomplished seasoned pro, one of the two or three elite fighters active in the division.

People use the "pre-Steward"/"post-Steward" thing to ignore any of the negatives in performance and rough edges in any early Lewis fights, or alibi his loss to McCall. But it doesn't stand up to scrutiny, he had some scruffy, s****py and so-so performances throughout the later part of his career too and Manny Steward was ABSOLUTELY COMPLICIT in Lewis losing to Rahman (a worst defeat than McCall), yet people ignore this !
Steward was going around saying Lewis didn't need to acclimatise to the altitude, that people who travel a lot (Lennox and himself!) dont need to worry about that ! Steward was messing around training new fighters (Naseem Hamed, who got pounded by MAB with Steward in his corner!) a fortnight before the Rahman fight, and he and Lewis were out in LA filming Ocean's Eleven !
****, if Pepe Corea pulled that stunt you'd all be calling him a clown and crucifyng him !
But everyone kisses Manny Steward's ass. It's sad.
I like this post...though-provoking.
fists of fury is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2009, 02:16 PM   #14
TommyV
P4P King
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: South-East/Greater London.
Posts: 16,249
vCash: 1987
Default Re: What did pre-Steward Lewis do better than post-Steward Lewis?

He was definately more exciting and more aggressive.
TommyV is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2009, 04:03 PM   #15
lefthook31
Undisputed Champion
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: in a boxing gym near you
Posts: 10,432
vCash: 1000
Default Re: What did pre-Steward Lewis do better than post-Steward Lewis?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unforgiven View Post
Yes, and Steward was party to all of that. Preparation is everything.
Steward was in LA making films with Lennox ! What does this guy have to do to get his due criticism ??
Steward didn't take the fight seriously.
And he was in Vegas preparing Hamed to lose to Barrera.

Steward is a good trainer, but there are dozens of unsung trainers who are just as good as him, he's simply a name that people like to throw around as if they really know what goes on behind closed doors, and he's made a good reputation for himself. He's outspoken.
Taking fighters who are already at the top of the game and having them remain successful or improve a little is VERY overrated. It's rife is all sports, these super-trainers who seem to command huge sums whether they deliver or not and are master of self-promotion.
Yeah well it works both ways. He developed Mike Moorer and Gerald Mclellan from amatuers, and they left him.
You cant win them all either and Hamed was always a technical mess. Steward also worked with Evander Holyfield and set the gameplan for his winning effort against Rid**** Bowe.
Its not overated either what he does and part of the reason hes in demand so much. It also shows the importance of a great strategist teacher, regardless of the level of fighter.
I do agree at the time Lewis lost, Steward was working with too many fighters. That probably contributed to Lewis loss, but again more reason why he was so important to him.
lefthook31 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Reply

Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump






All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:43 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Boxing News 24 Forum 2015