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Old 09-23-2009, 10:18 PM   #16
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Default Re: Intelligent Pressure Is One Of The Biggest Fluke Concepts In Boxing...

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Originally Posted by Sweet Pea View Post
There are different methods of applying it, just as there are different methods of applying any style. There are unorthodox fighters who've managed to step outside the boundaries of the textbook to make a style all their own, but they all have neccessary qualities which make them effective. Aaron Pryor was very unorthodox, but he was very difficult to deal with because of his speed, power, natural timing and accuracy, and the angles he threw punches at. His angles also made him a hard target to land on, even though they also left him exposed at times. Either way, he had an iron chin and unending stamina, so he was always a handful for anyone.
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Originally Posted by Jeff Young View Post
i agree except for the example of unintelligent pressure fighter....hatton was a master of cutting off the ring, the man had superb footwork, hell, was even able to close the gap against mayweather.....

UNintelligent pressure fighting: See Juan Diaz......the guy has no footwork at all, has no concept of what cutting off the ring is, and is flat-footed to boot...
you see my point.... the concept of "applied pressure" or whatever its called is TOTALLY subjective..... because at the end of the day its just about the victory or loss....the only thing at the end of the day that defines the pressure is the outcome of the fight

you could cut off the ring great and all that stuff and still lose and lose bad
and
you could just chase your opponent down doing a bad job of cutting off the ring and beat the shit out of someone


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Originally Posted by Sweet Pea View Post
I just did talk boxing with you. I explained it in full, unfortunately your ignorance once again got in the way of you taking any of that in. Regardless of how you take what I said, what you displayed with this thread was incredible ignorance. Instead of just asking us to enlighten you, you completely write off the opinion's of not only informed fans, but trainers and boxing afficianados who understand the very clear difference. You don't understand, so you take that as a sign that there is nothing to understand, and that you hold all the answers. That, my friend, is ignorance.

Next time just ask.
ayo **** that... you came out throwing insults... dont try to take this higher road bullshit on me now... you came out the first post talking shit
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Old 09-23-2009, 10:23 PM   #17
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Default Re: Intelligent Pressure Is One Of The Biggest Fluke Concepts In Boxing...

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Originally Posted by Jeff Young View Post
i agree except for the example of unintelligent pressure fighter....hatton was a master of cutting off the ring, the man had superb footwork, hell, was even able to close the gap against mayweather.....

UNintelligent pressure fighting: See Juan Diaz......the guy has no footwork at all, has no concept of what cutting off the ring is, and is flat-footed to boot...
Hatton was able to get to Mayweather not so much due to his own footwork, but rather Floyd's lack thereof. He backed up in straight lines (where Hatton was content to follow him) and purposely fought off the ropes looking for countering opportunities. Floyd, aside from a few fights, has never shown excellent footwork in the first place. Hatton had fast feet, and was a mauler, which is why he was so often able to get to his man. He'd grab, clinch, and proceed to put in his work from there. And my reasons for including Hatton have more to do with his completely porous defense than anything else. The Pacquiao fight was just embarassing from start to finish.

Diaz, on the other hand has shown excellent use of angles in quite a few of his fights. Not a great fighter by any means, but his footwork on the inside has always been impressive. Watch the way he befuddles Katsidis with his angles on the inside.
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Old 09-23-2009, 10:23 PM   #18
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Default Re: Intelligent Pressure Is One Of The Biggest Fluke Concepts In Boxing...

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Originally Posted by Jeff Young View Post
i agree except for the example of unintelligent pressure fighter....hatton was a master of cutting off the ring, the man had superb footwork, hell, was even able to close the gap against mayweather.....

UNintelligent pressure fighting: See Juan Diaz......the guy has no footwork at all, has no concept of what cutting off the ring is, and is flat-footed to boot...
I understand what you mean about Hatton but the very fact that he always left himself wide open coming in shows its not that effective against talented boxers. As for him cutting off the ring, its good but he basically use to bounce on his opponent a little too much for my taste..
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Old 09-23-2009, 10:24 PM   #19
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Default Re: Intelligent Pressure Is One Of The Biggest Fluke Concepts In Boxing...

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you see my point.... the concept of "applied pressure" or whatever its called is TOTALLY subjective..... because at the end of the day its just about the victory or loss....the only thing at the end of the day that defines the pressure is the outcome of the fight

you could cut off the ring great and all that stuff and still lose and lose bad
and
you could just chase your opponent down doing a bad job of cutting off the ring and beat the shit out of someone

ayo **** that... you came out throwing insults... dont try to take this higher road bullshit on me now... you came out the first post talking shit
Well I guess ignorance is bliss, so what did I expect?
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Old 09-23-2009, 10:25 PM   #20
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Default Re: Intelligent Pressure Is One Of The Biggest Fluke Concepts In Boxing...

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-Intelligent- would imply forcing the action with the least amount of damage done using certain personal assets, in order to establish yourself on the inside.

It all depends on a fighter's particular assets to apply the pressure.

-Mike Tyson's incredible head movement early on.
-Ike Quartey's great jab, setting up the rest.
-Joe Calzaghe's great feet movement in odd angles to put himself in a position to attack.

Etc...

exactly... see what im saying....

you cannot put pressure in little compartments by calling good pressure "applied" pressure and bad pressure ...

everyone has a different style and there cant ever be a clear cut definition on it...


for example

margarito (by your guys definition) of pressure is horrendous... he goes in with his face out and takes a lot of damage... but at the same time until he met shane mosley it was extremely effective for him

are you guys starting to understand what im saying? the whole concept of "applied pressure" is purely based on the outcome of the fight


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Well I guess ignorance is bliss, so what did I expect?

shut up dog... like honestly.... you ruin my forum experience... if you dont like what i have to say... click that x in the top right corner.... other wise act like a grown man not a little ****ing kid
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Old 09-23-2009, 10:29 PM   #21
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Default Re: Intelligent Pressure Is One Of The Biggest Fluke Concepts In Boxing...

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shut up dog... like honestly.... you ruin my forum experience...
Then get the **** out. Pretty simple solution.
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Old 09-23-2009, 10:29 PM   #22
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Default Re: Intelligent Pressure Is One Of The Biggest Fluke Concepts In Boxing...

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exactly... see what im saying....

you cannot put pressure in little compartments by calling good pressure "applied" pressure and bad pressure ...

everyone has a different style and there cant ever be a clear cut definition on it...


for example

margarito (by your guys definition) of pressure is horrendous... he goes in with his face out and takes a lot of damage... but at the same time until he met shane mosley it was extremely effective for him

are you guys starting to understand what im saying? the whole concept of "applied pressure" is purely based on the outcome of the fight





shut up dog... like honestly.... you ruin my forum experience... if you dont like what i have to say... click that x in the top right corner.... other wise act like a grown man not a little ****ing kid
I know what you mean but the end result doesn't have anything to do with the way the pressure is applied as far as I'm concerned. Margarito didn't really need to apply intelligent pressure because he could take everything thrown at him..that's all !

Arturo Gatti didn't win his matches because of intelligent pressure but because his heart and courage overtook his opponents.

Intelligent pressure : The key words are minimum damage coming in with maximum results once there..but it doesn't guarantee a win !
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Old 09-23-2009, 10:30 PM   #23
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Default Re: Intelligent Pressure Is One Of The Biggest Fluke Concepts In Boxing...

everyone does a good job of "applied" pressure until they lose

margarito
hatton
juan diaz
angulo

there will always be someone to break down this so called "applied" pressure... and when that happens "applied" pressure is all the sudden "stupid pressure"

imo its all the same... either it works or it doesnt

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Originally Posted by Sweet Pea View Post
Then get the **** out. Pretty simple solution.
*****! you in my thread

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Originally Posted by pasky2000 View Post
I know what you mean but the end result doesn't have anything to do with the way the pressure is applied as far as I'm concerned. Margarito didn't really need to apply intelligent pressure because he could take everything thrown at him..that's all !

Arturo Gatti didn't win his matches because of intelligent pressure but because his heart and courage overtook his opponents.

The key words are minimum damage coming in with maximum results once there..
so then why put it into compartments?

any great pressure fighter will be that.... a great pressure fighter...
until a great technical boxer hands them their ass

then their "applied pressure" is stupid pressure
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Old 09-23-2009, 10:31 PM   #24
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Default Re: Intelligent Pressure Is One Of The Biggest Fluke Concepts In Boxing...

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nah... **** that

i never heard of a fighter losing applying "intelligent pressure"
or a fighter winning using "horrible pressure"

the only thing that decides if its smart or bad is the outcome of the fight
You're terrible. MAyorga used beyond horrible pressure and beat the man that many thought may have a shot against Floyd had he not died.
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Old 09-23-2009, 10:34 PM   #25
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Default Re: Intelligent Pressure Is One Of The Biggest Fluke Concepts In Boxing...

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You're terrible. MAyorga used beyond horrible pressure and beat the man that many thought may have a shot against Floyd had he not died.
thats my whole point.... you can not jam "pressure" into compartments because you can be what people say is "horrible" at pressure fighting... yet still have successful results


your agreeing with what im saying and i think you missed it
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Old 09-23-2009, 10:35 PM   #26
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Default Re: Intelligent Pressure Is One Of The Biggest Fluke Concepts In Boxing...

How it works all depends on the level of the opponent. If you apply impeccable pressure technically, it's going to take a very high level of fighter who brings something else to the table to deal with you. If you're a guy like Margarito who relies mainly on his stamina and durability, you'll eventually be exposed at the highest level, regardless of the success you have against lower tier opponents. Again, this is the case with every style, not just pressure. Saying pressure doesn't depend on how it's applied is like saying any other style, and in essence the sport of boxing doesn't depend on how it's applied.
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Old 09-23-2009, 10:36 PM   #27
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Default Re: Intelligent Pressure Is One Of The Biggest Fluke Concepts In Boxing...

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You're terrible. MAyorga used beyond horrible pressure and beat the man that many thought may have a shot against Floyd had he not died.
Without realizing it you made WWM point. I do agree with WWM to a certain extent.
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Old 09-23-2009, 10:39 PM   #28
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Default Re: Intelligent Pressure Is One Of The Biggest Fluke Concepts In Boxing...

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How it works all depends on the level of the opponent. If you apply impeccable pressure technically, it's going to take a very high level of fighter who brings something else to the table to deal with you. If you're a guy like Margarito who relies mainly on his stamina and durability, you'll eventually be exposed at the highest level, regardless of the success you have against lower tier opponents. Again, this is the case with every style, not just pressure. Saying pressure doesn't depend on how it's applied is like saying any other style, and in essence the sport of boxing doesn't depend on how it's applied.

thats what im saying though.... there has been no perfectly unbeatable pressure fighter as far as i know...

thats why im saying either you have successful results with pressure or you don't.. but to try put pressure in compartments prior to a fight is stupid imo


if hatton beat floyd his pressure would have been great
if hatton lost (which he did) his pressure was stupid

you either are successful while using pressure
or unsucecssful
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Old 09-23-2009, 10:39 PM   #29
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Default Re: Intelligent Pressure Is One Of The Biggest Fluke Concepts In Boxing...

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Originally Posted by walk with me View Post
everyone does a good job of "applied" pressure until they lose

margarito
hatton
juan diaz
angulo

there will always be someone to break down this so called "applied" pressure... and when that happens "applied" pressure is all the sudden "stupid pressure"

imo its all the same... either it works or it doesnt

so then why put it into compartments?

any great pressure fighter will be that.... a great pressure fighter...
until a great technical boxer hands them their ass

then their "applied pressure" is stupid pressure
I'm getting lost for words because I thought I made it very simple...

Margarito always applied unintelligent pressure his entire career but his chin enabled him to dominate at a weight class where he was huge ! The Mosley loss has nothing to do...

Using any compartments of your game in order to absorb the least amount of damage coming inside while enabling yourself to distribute the most possible !
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Old 09-23-2009, 10:42 PM   #30
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Default Re: Intelligent Pressure Is One Of The Biggest Fluke Concepts In Boxing...

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thats my whole point.... you can not jam "pressure" into compartments because you can be what people say is "horrible" at pressure fighting... yet still have successful results


your agreeing with what im saying and i think you missed it
Nah you missed the your own point.


What you're trying to say is Intelligent pressure is a fluke..clearly the answer is no and then you go on talking about the randomness of results.
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