Sugar Ray Leonard vs Roberto Duran

[bladerunner]

Originally Posted by BENNY BLANCO

Of the Fab Four fights I think Hearns-Hagler is the best and 2nd place is a tie between Leonard first fight with Hearns and with Hagler.

When i first saw the Duran-Leonard fight i tought it was nothing special i tought it had too much holding and that they spend too much time on the ropes,but after a while i saw it again and saw all the little things they were doing in there and the skill that was involved in it and now its on my top 5 fights ever.

btw i think Leonard-Hearns is very overrated.

[duranimal]

[quote=Shake;5091691]I'm increasingly aware of the notion that my own taste differs a bit from most Classic members. This is my favorite fight of all-time, and I particularly enjoy the early rounds. In round 1, Duran is troubled so much by Leonard's ridiculous speed that he's hardly in the fight. He tries several different means of approach, which mostly fail, and you can see he's leery of the handspeed as well.

I've watched this fight upwards of a dozen times. Seeing how Duran copes and ultimately conquers a speed deficit and goes from seeming considerably slower to almost equally fast is pure boxing. He doesn't actually get faster, of course, but the timing, the feinting, the slipping, angles, in-and-out of range way of positioning the feet, changing the tempo whenever Leonard is near the ropes -- just makes it seem they are on equal footing.

Every time I watch this fight, I see new things. There's just so much in it.[/quote]

.................................................................................................... .......................

Same here, watched plenty of times over the years & had it by 1point either way & the draw, reason being as i'am a duran fan i've proberbly always over compensated for the opponant so as too not let natural bias play a part, sort of self censureship as it'll be like marking yer own driving test, best intentions but not the best way.

I t must be 10 yr's ago he last time i gave myself time to watch it, but watched it again 3 weeks ago & this time round i had the volume down & head phones on with a background track of various crown noises which my son had mixed, unbelievable diff as too how i followed the fight, i was hard pushed too give Leonard 3 clear rounds.

It's like the mist clearing after you've cut out the so called commentary, I've heard 2 yank versions, Bernstien & Cossel + Gutheridge from the UK who was extreamly pro-Leonard. But i'am telling yer now if you can cut out the commentary you'll really see the guts of this battle, it was exhausting, i was unwittingly holding my breath, the skill was phenom.

Has anyone tried it like that yet?? i never realised how much commentary can interfere with yer decision making on a sub-concious level, all rounds were tight but it just looked too me that duran seemed too suck something up whenever Leonard tried to rally & it was Duran who subtly dictated the way this battle panned out, as yer said, his faints & distance judgement were sublime, the way he got leonard to commit & then jumped him, you could see the stress on Leonards face as if too say "Fuck" i've underestimated this fucker, what do i do now!

I presume most of you lot have had the bernstien commentary, if not WHO.

[Addie]

[quote=duranimal;5091881]

Originally Posted by Shake

I'm increasingly aware of the notion that my own taste differs a bit from most Classic members. This is my favorite fight of all-time, and I particularly enjoy the early rounds. In round 1, Duran is troubled so much by Leonard's ridiculous speed that he's hardly in the fight. He tries several different means of approach, which mostly fail, and you can see he's leery of the handspeed as well.

I've watched this fight upwards of a dozen times. Seeing how Duran copes and ultimately conquers a speed deficit and goes from seeming considerably slower to almost equally fast is pure boxing. He doesn't actually get faster, of course, but the timing, the feinting, the slipping, angles, in-and-out of range way of positioning the feet, changing the tempo whenever Leonard is near the ropes -- just makes it seem they are on equal footing.

Every time I watch this fight, I see new things. There's just so much in it.[/quote]

.................................................................................................... .......................

Same here, watched plenty of times over the years & had it by 1point either way & the draw, reason being as i'am a duran fan i've proberbly always over compensated for the opponant so as too not let natural bias play a part, sort of self censureship as it'll be like marking yer own driving test, best intentions but not the best way.

I t must be 10 yr's ago he last time i gave myself time to watch it, but watched it again 3 weeks ago & this time round i had the volume down & head phones on with a background track of various crown noises which my son had mixed, unbelievable diff as too how i followed the fight, i was hard pushed too give Leonard 3 clear rounds.

It's like the mist clearing after you've cut out the so called commentary, I've heard 2 yank versions, Bernstien & Cossel + Gutheridge from the UK who was extreamly pro-Leonard. But i'am telling yer now if you can cut out the commentary you'll really see the guts of this battle, it was exhausting, i was unwittingly holding my breath, the skill was phenom.

Has anyone tried it like that yet?? i never realised how much commentary can interfere with yer decision making on a sub-concious level, all rounds were tight but it just looked too me that duran seemed too suck something up whenever Leonard tried to rally & it was Duran who subtly dictated the way this battle panned out, as yer said, his faints & distance judgement were sublime, the way he got leonard to commit & then jumped him, you could see the stress on Leonards face as if too say "Fuck" i've underestimated this fucker, what do i do now!

I presume most of you lot have had the bernstien commentary, if not WHO.

I had Capecho and some other guy. They were going NUTS!

I had to laugh when they talked to Benitez, they wanted his opinion on the fight but he was just like "When I come in to the fight in good shape, nobody can beat me". No Benitez, they wanted your opinion on the fight you're watching mate.

[natonic]

Originally Posted by Shake

I'm increasingly aware of the notion that my own taste differs a bit from most Classic members. This is my favorite fight of all-time, and I particularly enjoy the early rounds. In round 1, Duran is troubled so much by Leonard's ridiculous speed that he's hardly in the fight. He tries several different means of approach, which mostly fail, and you can see he's leery of the handspeed as well.

I've watched this fight upwards of a dozen times. Seeing how Duran copes and ultimately conquers a speed deficit and goes from seeming considerably slower to almost equally fast is pure boxing. He doesn't actually get faster, of course, but the timing, the feinting, the slipping, angles, in-and-out of range way of positioning the feet, changing the tempo whenever Leonard is near the ropes -- just makes it seem they are on equal footing.

Every time I watch this fight, I see new things. There's just so much in it.

Very nice summation of this fight.

[natonic]

[quote=duranimal;5091881]

Originally Posted by Shake

I'm increasingly aware of the notion that my own taste differs a bit from most Classic members. This is my favorite fight of all-time, and I particularly enjoy the early rounds. In round 1, Duran is troubled so much by Leonard's ridiculous speed that he's hardly in the fight. He tries several different means of approach, which mostly fail, and you can see he's leery of the handspeed as well.

I've watched this fight upwards of a dozen times. Seeing how Duran copes and ultimately conquers a speed deficit and goes from seeming considerably slower to almost equally fast is pure boxing. He doesn't actually get faster, of course, but the timing, the feinting, the slipping, angles, in-and-out of range way of positioning the feet, changing the tempo whenever Leonard is near the ropes -- just makes it seem they are on equal footing.

Every time I watch this fight, I see new things. There's just so much in it.[/quote]

.................................................................................................... .......................

Same here, watched plenty of times over the years & had it by 1point either way & the draw, reason being as i'am a duran fan i've proberbly always over compensated for the opponant so as too not let natural bias play a part, sort of self censureship as it'll be like marking yer own driving test, best intentions but not the best way.

I t must be 10 yr's ago he last time i gave myself time to watch it, but watched it again 3 weeks ago & this time round i had the volume down & head phones on with a background track of various crown noises which my son had mixed, unbelievable diff as too how i followed the fight, i was hard pushed too give Leonard 3 clear rounds.

It's like the mist clearing after you've cut out the so called commentary, I've heard 2 yank versions, Bernstien & Cossel + Gutheridge from the UK who was extreamly pro-Leonard. But i'am telling yer now if you can cut out the commentary you'll really see the guts of this battle, it was exhausting, i was unwittingly holding my breath, the skill was phenom.

Has anyone tried it like that yet?? i never realised how much commentary can interfere with yer decision making on a sub-concious level, all rounds were tight but it just looked too me that duran seemed too suck something up whenever Leonard tried to rally & it was Duran who subtly dictated the way this battle panned out, as yer said, his faints & distance judgement were sublime, the way he got leonard to commit & then jumped him, you could see the stress on Leonards face as if too say "Fuck" i've underestimated this fucker, what do i do now!

I presume most of you lot have had the bernstien commentary, if not WHO.

I have several versions of this fight. I was rooting for Leonard but thought Duran won it, close but clear. Duran gave the greatest performance against an all-time great that I've ever seen. The most biased version I've heard was by all-time fuckhead Ferdie Pacheco. He seemed clearly biased toward Leonard.

[Robbi]

[quote=natonic;5091958]

Originally Posted by duranimal

I have several versions of this fight. I was rooting for Leonard but thought Duran won it, close but clear. Duran gave the greatest performance against an all-time great that I've ever seen. The most biased version I've heard was by all-time fuckhead Ferdie Pacheco. He seemed clearly biased toward Leonard.

He was also a hugger of Chavez and Trinidad.

[duranimal]

[quote=Addie;5091928]

Originally Posted by duranimal

I had Capecho and some other guy. They were going NUTS!

I had to laugh when they talked to Benitez, they wanted his opinion on the fight but he was just like "When I come in to the fight in good shape, nobody can beat me". No Benitez, they wanted your opinion on the fight you're watching mate.

I gotta get that, if that the one where there screaming TELL US THE RESULT, PLEASE TELL US THE RESULT sounded fuckin awesome, thats the sort of passion yer want & not some dull twat commentating, i've never seen the bit in the ring where Duran flattened Leonards brother allegedly, Duran was going nut's, the u-tube clip just cut off & that sent me nuts, bastards

[Addie]

[quote=duranimal;5091985]

Originally Posted by Addie

I gotta get that, if that the one where there screaming TELL US THE RESULT, PLEASE TELL US THE RESULT sounded fuckin awesome, thats the sort of passion yer want & not some dull twat commentating, i've never seen the bit in the ring where Duran flattened Leonards brother allegedly, Duran was going nut's, the u-tube clip just cut off & that sent me nuts, bastards

When Duran hit with a right hand in the 10th I believe, I thought the commentators were going to implode. "LEONARD'S HURT!!'

[ChrisPontius]

Originally Posted by Addie

Was this because he was tiring, showboating, or because Leonard knew he needed the rounds?

I think all of those. Leonard knew he had to dig deep to get the win, and i really love that in a fighter. Duran felt he'd already won anyway (which he had)... that's my impression.

[duranimal]

[quote=Robbi;5091975]

Originally Posted by natonic

He was also a hugger of Chavez and Trinidad.

Robbi: never new that mate, always thought he was a Duran lover, he did the Duran/DeJesus 2, here comes the wolfman ect.

[duranimal]

Originally Posted by ChrisPontius

I think all of those. Leonard knew he had to dig deep to get the win, and i really love that in a fighter. Duran felt he'd already won anyway (which he had)... that's my impression.

Oh i Agree, Leonard gets my 100%+ & some prop's, he gutted it out when other well able opponants would have involuntary folded.

[Popkins]

I think I had it 9-6 to Duran. I think it is the best fight ever filmed. Maybe not as exciting as others, but when else have two p4p top 15 of all-time (and IMO two top 10 of all-time on ability) went to war for 15 solid rounds when both were prime or near-prime (I would say SRL was peak and Duran was still pretty much peak too even though he had moved up)? Not often. It is a highly skilled fight, thrilling in parts, and always fought with true full-blooded intensity. Two special performances, as Duran showed everything that was great in him, and Leonard proved he is one of the most gifted and versatile fighters in history.

It's pure pugilistic art.



As it has been mentioned already on this thread I will comment: Leonard-Hearns I is horrendously overrated simply because it fits the criteria of two young prime undefeated big-name fighters coming together in their primes. Round-by-round, it simply does not merit being considered as one of the best fights ever. JMHO.

[duranimal]

Popkins: I agree with you on the Leonard/Hearns 1 fight, never took off, too much huff/puff & bluff going on, it was only the 5th or 6th round when Leonard cracked that body shot in & the 13th round barrage he unleashed, otherwise he'd blown it, to coin dundee's phrase.

[Gesta]

I have not scored the fight, but i would have Duran by about for rounds.

[JudgeDredd]

Duran was just possesed that night, great performance