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Old 10-05-2009, 12:51 PM   #46
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Default Re: Sugar Ray Leonard vs Roberto Duran

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Originally Posted by WhataRock View Post
Whats your scorecard red?
I have 2 rounds even

8 for Doo-ran! and 5 rounds for Ray
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Old 10-05-2009, 12:53 PM   #47
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Default Re: Sugar Ray Leonard vs Roberto Duran

I was more wondering about what particular rounds you gave to either fighter...I cant find 5 rounds in the first 2/3 of that fight that I would give to Leonard.

He did much better towards the end.
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Old 10-05-2009, 01:09 PM   #48
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Default Re: Sugar Ray Leonard vs Roberto Duran

To tell the truth I think Roberto was coasting the last few rounds
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Old 10-05-2009, 03:49 PM   #49
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Default Re: Sugar Ray Leonard vs Roberto Duran

[quote=Bill Butcher;5096055]
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Originally Posted by redrooster View Post

He still is one of my fav`s as is Duran, I like all the fab 4 actually but Pacheco was crediting Leonard`s toughness n guts n shit when Duran was doing the scoring, he should have been praising the skills of Duran.
That fits into place with the Reg Gutteridge commentary, obviously this was shown on ITV world of sport back in the day, my mate who had a "VIDIO" only one on the street as he was rich taped it, only about 12 rounds were shown as was the norm then. But gutteridge was doing the voice over commentary as he was'nt at the fight, it's quite shocking his bias, just like percheco's then, whenever Duran nailed Leonard & leonard tried to fire back all gutteridge would say was " OH WHAT A BRAVE KID THIS LEONARD IS" HE'S BEING HIT BUT HE'S FIRING BACK" what a load of wank & at the end when the decision was given all Gutteridge said was "Well i thought Leonard had done enough for MEEEEEEE but it's decided by ENGLANDS HARRY GIBBS in a real OH SO SLOW sarcastic manner. Obviously some past history there between them two.

It must be some sort of masonic link that you follow the original commentators lead so everyone agrees with each other.

With regard to Percheco it just go's to show you dose'nt it how fickle these bastards are when they smell GOLD, his joint commentary on the Duran/DeJesus 2 fight had a similer vein withe him drooling over Duran for %95 & poor esterban got %5, good eye-opener that, now i understand why percheco is derided in the states.
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Old 10-05-2009, 04:36 PM   #50
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Default Re: Sugar Ray Leonard vs Roberto Duran

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Originally Posted by BENNY BLANCO View Post
I remember this fight being one sided in favor of Duran.

In terms of excitement I always thought this fight is kind of overrated in that department. Way too much fighting on the ropes and in close corners to really consider this a great fight, good fight no doubt but not a great one in my opinion.
I've never quite understood this mode of thinking. I thought it was the best display of in-fighting I've ever seen, and one of my favorite fights and performances (from Duran) of all time.
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Old 10-05-2009, 04:44 PM   #51
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Default Re: Sugar Ray Leonard vs Roberto Duran

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I've never quite understood this mode of thinking. I thought it was the best display of in-fighting I've ever seen, and one of my favorite fights and performances (from Duran) of all time.
Was it a great display of in-fighting by Duran? Yes it was.
Was it a great performance by Duran? Yes it was.
But where our opinions differentiate is whether it is greatly entertaining or not, and seeing in-fighting for long periods within a bout is just not greatly entertaining to me personally.
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Old 10-05-2009, 05:06 PM   #52
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Default Re: Sugar Ray Leonard vs Roberto Duran

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Originally Posted by BENNY BLANCO View Post
Was it a great display of in-fighting by Duran? Yes it was.
Was it a great performance by Duran? Yes it was.
But where our opinions differentiate is whether it is greatly entertaining or not, and seeing in-fighting for long periods within a bout is just not greatly entertaining to me personally.
Which is exactly why I rank EM-MAB I comfortably ahead of Corrales-Castillo I but thats another story.... but... Leonard-Duran I wasnt just all infighting, there was mid-range fighting, distance boxing & loads of amazing technical skills on display, high level defence, combination punches to both head & body, the lot... this was a brilliant fight in every way.

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Old 10-05-2009, 05:42 PM   #53
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Default Re: Sugar Ray Leonard vs Roberto Duran

I think there's no greater test of character in a boxing ring than prolonged infighting. It depletes your physical and mental reserves -- and when two fighters do it well, some of it is involuntary, like a mutual stranglehold, which is the greatest attack on your primal instincts. It hurts, it keeps hurting, you're so tired, you still have so long to go until the final bell, you're never gonna win -- and now you, momentarily at some point during the bout, are unable to keep your opponent off. You are trapped, on the ropes, you swing hard and miss, you can't find him, can't block or parry, you're just taking it.

That moment -- and Leonard had several of them -- is a great time to fold. To wilt under the pressure, the pressure of the opponent and the pressure of the expectations upon you, the very expectations you are betraying. You are disappointing in there, in their eyes. If only those nitwits knew what it was to be where you are, how difficult and taxing this is.

Leonard endured, broke the barrier, and until the end fought to win. When Duran let up in the last third of the fight, he still had the mental strength after all that to step in and actually spearhead the fight. The kid was twenty-four years old. Some people are just born a warrior.

To this day, it's my favorite Ray Leonard fight, with Hearns at second. He showed the depth of his heart here. I sincerely believe he would have gone for rounds six- and seventeen would it have been possible, and considering his opponent was the best Duran fighting the perfect fight, that perhaps says most of all.
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Old 10-05-2009, 06:36 PM   #54
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Default Re: Sugar Ray Leonard vs Roberto Duran

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Originally Posted by BENNY BLANCO View Post
Was it a great display of in-fighting by Duran? Yes it was.
Was it a great performance by Duran? Yes it was.
But where our opinions differentiate is whether it is greatly entertaining or not, and seeing in-fighting for long periods within a bout is just not greatly entertaining to me personally.
Those two guys were fighting to the death that night. It was a real life and death struggle between two guys of super high skill level. I don't know how you could get a better fight. That in-fighting was medieval.
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Old 10-05-2009, 06:44 PM   #55
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Default Re: Sugar Ray Leonard vs Roberto Duran

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Originally Posted by Shake View Post
I think there's no greater test of character in a boxing ring than prolonged infighting. It depletes your physical and mental reserves -- and when two fighters do it well, some of it is involuntary, like a mutual stranglehold, which is the greatest attack on your primal instincts. It hurts, it keeps hurting, you're so tired, you still have so long to go until the final bell, you're never gonna win -- and now you, momentarily at some point during the bout, are unable to keep your opponent off. You are trapped, on the ropes, you swing hard and miss, you can't find him, can't block or parry, you're just taking it.

That moment -- and Leonard had several of them -- is a great time to fold. To wilt under the pressure, the pressure of the opponent and the pressure of the expectations upon you, the very expectations you are betraying. You are disappointing in there, in their eyes. If only those nitwits knew what it was to be where you are, how difficult and taxing this is.

Leonard endured, broke the barrier, and until the end fought to win. When Duran let up in the last third of the fight, he still had the mental strength after all that to step in and actually spearhead the fight. The kid was twenty-four years old. Some people are just born a warrior.

To this day, it's my favorite Ray Leonard fight, with Hearns at second. He showed the depth of his heart here. I sincerely believe he would have gone for rounds six- and seventeen would it have been possible, and considering his opponent was the best Duran fighting the perfect fight, that perhaps says most of all.
Now that's a post.
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Old 10-05-2009, 07:15 PM   #56
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Default Re: Sugar Ray Leonard vs Roberto Duran

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shake View Post
I think there's no greater test of character in a boxing ring than prolonged infighting. It depletes your physical and mental reserves -- and when two fighters do it well, some of it is involuntary, like a mutual stranglehold, which is the greatest attack on your primal instincts. It hurts, it keeps hurting, you're so tired, you still have so long to go until the final bell, you're never gonna win -- and now you, momentarily at some point during the bout, are unable to keep your opponent off. You are trapped, on the ropes, you swing hard and miss, you can't find him, can't block or parry, you're just taking it.

That moment -- and Leonard had several of them -- is a great time to fold. To wilt under the pressure, the pressure of the opponent and the pressure of the expectations upon you, the very expectations you are betraying. You are disappointing in there, in their eyes. If only those nitwits knew what it was to be where you are, how difficult and taxing this is.

Leonard endured, broke the barrier, and until the end fought to win. When Duran let up in the last third of the fight, he still had the mental strength after all that to step in and actually spearhead the fight. The kid was twenty-four years old. Some people are just born a warrior.

To this day, it's my favorite Ray Leonard fight, with Hearns at second. He showed the depth of his heart here. I sincerely believe he would have gone for rounds six- and seventeen would it have been possible, and considering his opponent was the best Duran fighting the perfect fight, that perhaps says most of all.
Brilliant post

Leonard was put too the test in this fight & passed, Duran said that this world be Leonards 1st proffesional fight, as he'd said all of Leonards previous opponants were just bags of shit, obviously a public dig at Benitez
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Old 10-05-2009, 08:44 PM   #57
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Default Re: Sugar Ray Leonard vs Roberto Duran

I re-watched it and had it 7-2 Duran through 9, but haven't judged the rest of the bout.

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Originally Posted by Bill Butcher View Post

I own the fight with Ferdie Pacheco & some other cunt commentating, Pacheco is very pro-Leonard, its annoying.

Ps. I always watch close fights with no sound, have done for yrs, it makes a big difference, you actually do see what happens better.
Pacheco was annoying no matter who is fighting. I actually liked him better in this fight than usual.

He's even worse when he's being interviewed on documentaries.
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Old 10-05-2009, 09:33 PM   #58
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Default Re: Sugar Ray Leonard vs Roberto Duran

the fight was close, I think I had it 8-6-1 Duran...but the 2nd rd when Leonard was hurt bad made a big impact...Duran had the mental edge in this fight and moving up in weight was giving Leonard the edge...the fight was close but I think it would have been a robbery if you gave that fight to Leonard...It was Durans fight...what a fight...15 rds...
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Old 10-05-2009, 09:33 PM   #59
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Default Re: Sugar Ray Leonard vs Roberto Duran

Great performance by both fighters. As stated before Leonard fought very well and sould get praise in a losing effort.
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Old 10-05-2009, 11:12 PM   #60
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Default Re: Sugar Ray Leonard vs Roberto Duran

Except for the 15th round, there were two sorts of rounds in this fight. There were those rounds Duran won going away. Then there were those rounds in which Leonard held his own, but in which Duran was the aggressor. Giving Leonard the rounds in which he held his own will produce a score somewhere in the neighborhood of 9-6 or 8-6-1. But this is being awfully generous to Leonard. Duran was being very tricky in there. He was slipping punches, landing short hooks inside, constantly pounding the body, and was the effective aggressor except in the first and last round. I tend not to appreciate a fighter up against the ropes holding his own when the other fighter is making the fight. Duran made the fight. To better reflect the ass whipping Duran put on Leonard, a more reflective score would be something like 10-5 or 9-4-2. Whatever the score, no way is it a draw or a one-point fight. As somebody said earlier, taken in its totality Duran dominates.

I noted that somebody gave Leonard all the last four rounds, even round 14. In round 14, Duran buckled Leonard's needs three times with left hooks. Leonard was missing badly and Duran was killing him underneath. Leonard won the 15th round because Duran decided to coast. Leonard did not win rounds 11-14. He was tired and Duran had his second wind. Duran physically out muscled Leonard in those rounds. Also that same somebody thought Duran won rounds in which Leonard actually held his own and I could see an argument in Leonard's favor. So I don't know what fight he was watching.

Some other points. Leonard's holding was excessive. His plan was to hold and hit. But Padilla did an excellent job of preventing Leonard from using the strategy. Had Leonard had his way, it would have been a wrestling match. Holding figures into the scoring, and this hurts Leonard even in those rounds in which he holds his own. For Duran's part, he is using his head at times, much in the same way Armstrong used his head. In fact, Duran's approach to this fight during more rounds was very similar to the way Armstrong would have approached Leonard.

The most surprising part of the fight is the way Duran bulled Leonard around the ring. Leonard was at the time a much bigger man and one would have thought he could have handled Duran. That's what the Leonard team thought coming in. Duran is so physically powerful it's amazing. I particularly like the moment when he bulls Leonard against the ropes, Leonard finally turns him around, but then a second later Duran puts Leonard back on the ropes and pounds him.
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