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Old 10-06-2009, 04:46 AM   #61
JohnThomas1
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Default Re: Sugar Ray Leonard vs Roberto Duran

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as he'd said all of Leonards previous opponants were just bags of shit, obviously a public dig at Benitez
I wonder who had the last laugh with that one
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Old 10-06-2009, 07:38 AM   #62
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Default Re: Sugar Ray Leonard vs Roberto Duran

Just seen the thread but i had it by 5 points for Duran. Obviously it wasn't a one sided bout in terms of the nature of it, but i had it by that margin.
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Old 10-06-2009, 10:40 AM   #63
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Default Re: Sugar Ray Leonard vs Roberto Duran

It's been a long time since I saw complete version of this,but I definitely gave it to Duran. Leonard proved he could take it as well as dish it out though. Good candidate for fight of the 80's,and the decade was only six months old !
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Old 10-06-2009, 10:50 AM   #64
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Default Re: Sugar Ray Leonard vs Roberto Duran

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I wonder who had the last laugh with that one
Why you trap door spider you
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Old 10-06-2009, 10:50 PM   #65
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Default Re: Sugar Ray Leonard vs Roberto Duran

Round-by-round scoring
The champion's score on the left.

round 1: 10-9 Close, but Leonard edges it. Duran a bit reckless.
round 2: 9-10 Duran hurts Leonard.
round 3: 9-10 Duran on fire.
round 4: 9-10 Still on fire.
round 5: 10-10 This is one of those rare times that I scored an even round. Leonard has big moments. Duran is the constant aggressor. Duran is ducking a lot of shots. The exchanges are even.

First third...
Leonard: 47 points
Duran: 49
Duran decisively wins first third of fight.

round 6: 10-9 Very close. Leonard edges it with some clean hard shots.
round 7: 10-9 The fight moves to the center of the ring. Leonard even had Duran on the ropes for a spell. Duran comes on at the end, but Leonard edges it.
round 8: 10-9 The round is fought almost entirely in the center of the ring. Duran comes on at the end with some tremendous shots, but he is resting mostly. Leonard carries the round by a slim margin.
round 9: 9-10 Pretty much all Duran. Leonard is resting, perhaps. And holding a lot. Leonard appear to be cut by a butt. Maybe this is distracting him.
round 10: 9-10 Leonard does some impressive shining at the end and ends with a good shot. He started off the round with a good shot. But Duran outhustles him in between.

After two-thirds...
Leonard: 95
Duran: 96
Leonard carries middle third of fight, but by the slimmest of margins. For a while it looked like he was crawling back into the fight. But Duran came on big in 9 and 10. Duran clearly has the momentum going into the championship rounds. Leonard needs to do something dramatic.

round 11: 9-10 Leonard is tired. Duran has second wind. Leonard tries to put Duran on the ropes but Duran turns Leonard right back around. He is pounding Leonard throughout the round.
round 12: 9-10 Another big round for Duran. Leonard is very tired. Duran is landing clean hooks and right hands, while digging to the body. Leonard is missing a lot of punches.
round 13: 9-10 Duran has taken clear command of the fight. He is teeing off on Leonard head. Hooks, right hands. Leonard’s head snaps back several times. Even off the ropes Duran is landing punch after punch and Leonard is just leaning on him. Leonard needs a knockout to prevent Duran from snatching his undefeated record and he has nothing in the tank and although he hurts Duran in the final seconds, it has been one of Duran’s most dominant rounds in the fight.
round 14: 9-10 Both fighters are very tired. Duran outhustles Leonard and lands several clean shots. He buckles Leonard’s knees. It’s amazing how Duran makes Leonard miss. The bolo punch gets a lot of attention, but you can see clearly from the close up that it doesn’t land – it misses Duran by almost a foot - and Leonard is in any case holding and hitting in a flagrant foul. (I can’t believe people fall for gimmicks like this. Remember Leonard's low blow bolo on Hagler and the attention it received?)
round 15: 10-9 Duran gives the round away. He knows he has won big and knows Leonard doesn’t have the stuff to knock him out.

Final score...
Leonard: 141
Duran: 145
Duran romps through the championship rounds to seal the deal.

The officials scores are surprisingly close. Angelo Poletti scores a lot of rounds even (10 of them, in fact). At least the judges got the unanimous verdict right. Can you imagine how crazy a majority decision or draw would have been? I can’t even contemplate a Leonard win. You really have to wonder sometimes what people are looking at when they score a fight.

Ridiculously, the New York Times had Leonard winning the fight 144-142. This is the same New York Times that absurdly scored the Hagler-Leonard fight a draw. That rag seems to spot Leonard several rounds before the fight begins.
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Old 10-06-2009, 11:26 PM   #66
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Default Re: Sugar Ray Leonard vs Roberto Duran

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Originally Posted by MrMarvel View Post
round 11: 9-10 Leonard is tired. Duran has second wind. Leonard tries to put Duran on the ropes but Duran turns Leonard right back around. He is pounding Leonard throughout the round.
round 12: 9-10 Another big round for Duran. Leonard is very tired. Duran is landing clean hooks and right hands, while digging to the body. Leonard is missing a lot of punches.
round 13: 9-10 Duran has taken clear command of the fight. He is teeing off on Leonard head. Hooks, right hands. Leonardís head snaps back several times. Even off the ropes Duran is landing punch after punch and Leonard is just leaning on him. Leonard needs a knockout to prevent Duran from snatching his undefeated record and he has nothing in the tank and although he hurts Duran in the final seconds, it has been one of Duranís most dominant rounds in the fight.
round 14: 9-10 Both fighters are very tired. Duran outhustles Leonard and lands several clean shots. He buckles Leonardís knees. Itís amazing how Duran makes Leonard miss. The bolo punch gets a lot of attention, but you can see clearly from the close up that it doesnít land Ė it misses Duran by almost a foot - and Leonard is in any case holding and hitting in a flagrant foul. (I canít believe people fall for gimmicks like this. Remember Leonard's low blow bolo on Hagler and the attention it received?)
round 15: 10-9 Duran gives the round away. He knows he has won big and knows Leonard doesnít have the stuff to knock him out.

Final score...
Leonard: 141
Duran: 145
Duran romps through the championship rounds to seal the deal.

The officials scores are surprisingly close. Angelo Poletti scores a lot of rounds even (10 of them, in fact). At least the judges got the unanimous verdict right. Can you imagine how crazy a majority decision or draw would have been? I canít even contemplate a Leonard win. You really have to wonder sometimes what people are looking at when they score a fight.

Ridiculously, the New York Times had Leonard winning the fight 144-142. This is the same New York Times that absurdly scored the Hagler-Leonard fight a draw. That rag seems to spot Leonard several rounds before the fight begins.
You're pretty good at spewing propoganda. I'd say that your scoring 4 of the last 5 rounds for Duran is as skewed as the New York Times score card. "Duran romps through the championships rounds to seal the deal". ???? Are you serious? Go take another hit from your commerorative Hands of Stone bong.
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Old 10-06-2009, 11:32 PM   #67
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Default Re: Sugar Ray Leonard vs Roberto Duran

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You're pretty good at spewing propoganda. I'd say that your scoring 4 of the last 5 rounds for Duran is as skewed as the New York Times score card. "Duran romps through the championships rounds to seal the deal". ???? Are you serious? Go take another hit from your commerorative Hands of Stone bong.

To be fair though having Duran only a point ahead after 10 seems a little to generous to Ray. I feel thats where Roberto won the fight.
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Old 10-07-2009, 03:49 AM   #68
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Default Re: Sugar Ray Leonard vs Roberto Duran

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Originally Posted by natonic View Post
You're pretty good at spewing propoganda. I'd say that your scoring 4 of the last 5 rounds for Duran is as skewed as the New York Times score card. "Duran romps through the championships rounds to seal the deal". ???? Are you serious? Go take another hit from your commemorative Hands of Stone bong.

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Old 10-07-2009, 09:36 AM   #69
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Default Re: Sugar Ray Leonard vs Roberto Duran

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To be fair though having Duran only a point ahead after 10 seems a little to generous to Ray. I feel thats where Roberto won the fight.
Absolutely. That's almost as skewed as suggesting Duran "romped through the championship rounds". There are a select few on this site who aren't interested in discussing fights/fighters with historical accuracy but rather have an agenda and the egomaniacal belief that they can alter history through suggestion. Constant suggestion and propoganda. It gets old. ****s up otherwise good threads and discussions.
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Old 10-07-2009, 11:44 AM   #70
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Default Re: Sugar Ray Leonard vs Roberto Duran

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To be fair though having Duran only a point ahead after 10 seems a little to generous to Ray. I feel thats where Roberto won the fight.
Some people I talk to score round 1 even and then maybe find another round for Duran in between 6-8. But then these same people often given Leonard round 5, which I don't. Almost everybody I talk to has Leonard evening up the fight in the second third. I thought that was the standard understanding of the fight, but I respect your opinion. Leonard doesn't win very many rounds at all decisively, so I guess I can see how you might give some of those to Duran.

However, if you watch the ebb and flow you will see that Leonard is able to crawl back into the fight because Duran's furious pace winds him a bit and the fight moves more to the center of the ring. This is strategic. Duran decides to take a few breathers so he can dominate down the stretch. By the 9th round, Duran clearly has his second wind and takes it over, putting Leonard back on the ropes. Watch the fight again and you will see what I'm talking about.

By the middle of the championship rounds Leonard clearly needs a knockout or several knockdowns to win. Duran puts far too much distance between Ray and himself in the final third. Leonard was exhausted. It isn't until the 14th that Duran starts to fade. Throughout the fight Leonard is only able to get things done when Duran pulled back on the fury. Otherwise he's popping Leonard with shots from all angles and particularly nailing Leonard with hooks.

When I watch the fight with people I make them aware of three key things observers often miss. So I will suggest these here.

The first is Duran's body punching. He is constantly punching underneath. Leonard does some shining to the body, but he is ineffective in coming up with solid punches underneath. Body punches are extremely important punches in boxing, but observers often miss them or don't accord them their deserved importance.

Second is Duran's constant punching. Leonard tries to tie Duran up by clutching Duran's arms under his arms. But whenever Duran has a free hand, he's banging. All these punches count. I have noted that many observes stop counting punches when one fighter is holding.

Third, Duran slips punches. Duran is the absolute master of this. He has a uncanny ability to move at the last fraction of a second. He does this so that his opponent is committed and he can counter. Duran almost always leaves exchanges having the last word. He steps up this tactic down the stretch. Leonard is missing like crazy. Also, Duran is ducking down and Leonard does not change his style to account for this. Instead of coming up with his punches, Leonard is firing hooks over Duran head or overhand rights that hit Duran's back. These are not scoring punches. The one dramatic uppercut Leonard does throw, the bolo, which gets observers excited, misses by a country mile.
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Old 10-07-2009, 12:48 PM   #71
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Default Re: Sugar Ray Leonard vs Roberto Duran

[quote=Bill Butcher;5096055]
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Originally Posted by redrooster View Post

He still is one of my fav`s as is Duran, I like all the fab 4 actually but Pacheco was crediting Leonard`s toughness n guts n shit when Duran was doing the scoring, he should have been praising the skills of Duran.

At one point in about the 5th roound Pacheco actually says the fight is about even.
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Old 10-07-2009, 01:09 PM   #72
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Default Re: Sugar Ray Leonard vs Roberto Duran

Did I just see someone's scoredcard giving the majority of the championship rounds to Roberto Duran. I can't agree with that at all.
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Old 10-07-2009, 01:13 PM   #73
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Default Re: Sugar Ray Leonard vs Roberto Duran

i honestly thought Duran won it comfortable ill give it a rewatch though

ill post my original score card up later
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Old 10-07-2009, 01:14 PM   #74
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Default Re: Sugar Ray Leonard vs Roberto Duran

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i honestly thought Duran won it comfortable ill give it a rewatch though

ill post my original score card up later
Well, we disagreed with the Arguello vs Pryor I scorecard too.
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Old 10-07-2009, 01:16 PM   #75
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Default Re: Sugar Ray Leonard vs Roberto Duran

yeh chances are we will disagree again
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