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Old 10-06-2009, 01:10 AM   #46
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Default Re: Duran-Hearns

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Originally Posted by pare View Post
nah, he was scared to death of hearns. manny steward told that story of hearns spooking duran years before the fight and that duran was scared of hearns cos he knew he'd have to fight him someday. duran's demeanor in the fight confirmed it for me.
NAW...... If Duran was willing to fight "Leonard and Hagler" prior to Hearns, than I just cannot see Duran being scared shitless going in against "The Hitman."


I'm telling you, Duran lost plenty of weight leading up to make 154 pounds for Hearns..... Duran looked wobbly legged and ill coming into the ring.... Like Gil Clancy said following the massacre: "Duran didn't have it from the opening bell."

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Old 10-06-2009, 01:31 AM   #47
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Default Re: Duran-Hearns

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Nah, Im not buying it MR.BILL....

Dejesus I - Took him lightly, non-title fight.
Leonard II - Outta shape, too much money to turn down, stomach cramps.
Benitez - Still suffereing from `no mas` mentally, lost his drive, conditioning could have been better.
Kirkland Laing - Took him lightly, outta shape again.
Hearns - Women, booze, thought Tommy was a chicken etc.
Robbie Sims - Choose one of the above.

You see the pattern developing here ?

Roberto Duran is easily one of my favourite fighters & undisputedly a top 10 ATG but he is one terrible loser, really really bad, **** me, this guy is the king of excuses, for real... .... no doubt at all.

Well the pattern is that just about all of those fights were after Leonard 1...as I see it, that was the Everest that Duran climbed and anything after that he just wasnt as hungry.

He was loaded, living it up and I truly believe he mostly fought after this to maintain this lifestyle. The kind of lifestyle that cost a lot, not to mention he and his wife's love of gambling.

Duran doesnt beat Hearns is 10 fights..But I dont think Duran at his best goes out like that..I dont think its hard to see that this is a Duran who put any effort he was going to put into this fight just to make the weight and truly thought he could just bowl Hearns over as soon as he connected.

Do people truly think that the Duran who beat Leonard and the Duran who lost to Robbie Simms are the same fighter?
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Old 10-06-2009, 01:42 AM   #48
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Default Re: Duran-Hearns

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Well the pattern is that just about all of those fights were after Leonard 1...as I see it, that was the Everest that Duran climbed and anything after that he just wasnt as hungry.

He was loaded, living it up and I truly believe he mostly fought after this to maintain this lifestyle. The kind of lifestyle that cost a lot, not to mention he and his wife's love of gambling.

Duran doesnt beat Hearns is 10 fights..But I dont think Duran at his best goes out like that..I dont think its hard to see that this is a Duran who put any effort he was going to put into this fight just to make the weight and truly thought he could just bowl Hearns over as soon as he connected.

Do people truly think that the Duran who beat Leonard and the Duran who lost to Robbie Simms are the same fighter?
After the loss to Leonard in '80, Duran became moody, bloated & inconsistent....... Duran from then on would only turn on the fire every once in a while from the yrs 1981 to 2001........ After 1980, Duran changed as a fighter..... By 1981, Duran was now going after the 154 lb. division.... From 1981 to 2001, Duran would only fight between 154 and 168 pounds..... Duran's physique would seldom ever display that lean / ripped tone that he had against Leonard in Montreal.......

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Note:

From 1981 to 2001, I felt that Duran only looked lean and mean against the likes of "Luigi Minchillo, Cuevas, Moore, Hagler, Barkley, Leonard, Paz 1 in '94 & Camacho" in 1996........

I thought Duran looked soft and bloated against "Hearns, Sims, Paz 2 in '95, Castro, Joppy & Camacho 2" in '01....
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Old 10-06-2009, 02:20 AM   #49
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Default Re: Duran-Hearns

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Originally Posted by pare View Post
nah, he was scared to death of hearns. manny steward told that story of hearns spooking duran years before the fight and that duran was scared of hearns cos he knew he'd have to fight him someday. duran's demeanor in the fight confirmed it for me.
I was thinking the same thing, too. Duran looked scared, and he fought scared.
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Old 10-06-2009, 04:25 AM   #50
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Default Re: Duran-Hearns

I dont think Duran was scared of Hearns. He was shocked by Hearns' speed and power once the fight started. But I dont think he was scared of Hearns.
Manny Steward talks crap.
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Old 10-06-2009, 04:32 AM   #51
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I believe Duran was out of shape and undisciplined and unfocussed for much of the 1980s, he liked to party and his performances suffered. He's human after all. It's no excuse for losing though, it's no valid alibi. In fact, his quitting and his losing to some of those ordinary fighters impacts on his greatness, IMO, especially his quitting against Leonard. He would forfeit any consideration I might have to place him among the very best p4p ATGs with that stunt alone. Not that I'd necessarily place him that high without it.
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Old 10-06-2009, 11:45 AM   #52
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Two things occured with Duran in 1979........ One is, after 12 yrs as a pro fighter, Duran decided to shine on the 135 to 140 pounders for good and go at it at 147 pounds, which seemed too big for his frame by physical standards.... Second is, as a welterweight, Duran actually became a millionaire where he could've retired by age 30, had he played his cards right and not been such a party goer and supporter of such a big Panamanian family.... At 147 pounds, during 1979 and 1980, Duran beat the piss outta Carlos Palomino and Ray Leonard.... The fight with Leonard in June of '80 up in Canada would be the last time that Roberto Duran would ever appear real lean and ripped with perhaps a mere 3% body fat with added muscle to his frame..... Its freaky that Duran would go on and fight for another 21 yrs more until 2001 and age 50 after he said "No Mas" in 1980 in the rematch with Leonard.....

In truth, Duran's conditioning would never quite be the same after 1980 cuz he insisted on venturing into the 154, 160 & 168 pounds divisions as time rolled on......... Between 1881 and 2001, I say Duran was really in tip-top shape for his fights with "Minchillo, Cuevas, Moore, Hagler, Barkley, Leonard, Paz of '94 & Camacho of '96." Now, Duran won some and lost some of those fights, however, he was in-shape..........

Roberto Duran clearly lost the decisions to Hagler in '83 and to Leonard in '89..... I know that, but he was in-shape.........

Roberto Duran kinda' got dicked against Paz in 1994, but I will not cry a river over it... It was close..... Paz did a lotta' pitty-patty type punching while always moving... Duran was slow, but still powerful at age 43......

Roberto Duran got SCREWED blue against Camacho in 1996 on PPV............... I was and I'm still pissed..........

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Old 10-06-2009, 04:48 PM   #53
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Default Re: Duran-Hearns

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Originally Posted by MRBILL View Post
I hear you all, but I kinda' beg to differ on Duran's plan......... Duran was listed at 178 pounds at the March of '84 press conference with Tommy Hearns..... Hearns looked normal, while Duran looked puffy in the chin and face, and strike zone.... Duran trained for Hearns, however, Duran wanted to fight at 160 more so than 154 in 1984.... BUT! This was a title fight, so Duran had to make 154.....

No doubt that Duran was weakened to a degree by dropping down to 154 pounds in 1984... No Doubt... And from what I had heard through the grapevine is, Duran was actually looking to go at it slow with Hearns and box a tactical but professional fight with Hearns in Vegas...... YES! Duran knew Hearns had a shaky chin, and Duran was looking to land some sneaky punches on Hearns to test that chin too... But it was Hearns who shot a long right that caught Duran high on the head in the middle of round 1 that caused Duran to back the **** up... Duran was soon cut by either a razor jab or the laces from Hearns.... BOOM!! Hearns lands a right hand to the side of Duran's mug and Duran drops like he's been shot... I knew right then that Duran didn't have much gas in the tank as was gonna be seeing stars in just a moment or two......... Well, it happened....


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Are you saying that Duran's "plan" if you want to call it that, was sound? Hindsight is 20/20 but that plan was never sound to begin with. He was at exactly the wrong range... to begin with.
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Old 10-06-2009, 05:11 PM   #54
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Default Re: Duran-Hearns

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Originally Posted by Stonehands89 View Post
Are you saying that Duran's "plan" if you want to call it that, was sound? Hindsight is 20/20 but that plan was never sound to begin with. He was at exactly the wrong range... to begin with.
Old Stonehands.
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Old 10-06-2009, 05:13 PM   #55
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Default Re: Duran-Hearns

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Originally Posted by Stonehands89 View Post
Are you saying that Duran's "plan" if you want to call it that, was sound? Hindsight is 20/20 but that plan was never sound to begin with. He was at exactly the wrong range... to begin with.
Fact is, Duran was not Duran for Hearns in '84....... Duran was there to get paid......... He was chubby at the spring press conference and weak come fight time... Duran, as CLEARLY stated by an earlier poster, was different and off-beat against Hearns in 1984.... Duran touching gloves with Hearns, indicating respect and all, seemed odd about Duran on that eve...

Yes.. Duran tried to slowly take the action to Hearns in a tactical manner. Duran was weak and ill-prepared, but he knew Hearns had a potent right hand, epsecially in the early rds..... But the fact was, Duran was just too small physically to box with the speedy and lanky Hearns at 154...... Hearns speared Duran a few times real good with the jab, before crossing over with a long right high on Duran's head that backed Duran up... From that point on, it was just a matter of time, and time was short.... Duran got smoked by Hearns......

Point is, Duran didn't want to go after Hearns early... NO!! Duran was looking to pick his shots and trying to nail Hearns with some well placed sneaky shots, but Duran was too slow, short and stood right in range for Hearns to land his bombs..... Big Mistake...........

Look, it doesn't matter....... Duran was NOT gonna beat Hearns at 154 in 1984 even with a bat.......

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Old 10-08-2009, 12:28 AM   #56
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Default Re: Duran-Hearns

Hearns was unbelievably fast in that fight, was throwing a lot of quick jabs from the outset and was able to distance himself well. I don't think Duran could have done much to win or hold off the hitman.
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Old 10-08-2009, 02:24 PM   #57
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Hearns was unbelievably fast in that fight, was throwing a lot of quick jabs from the outset and was able to distance himself well. I don't think Duran could have done much to win or hold off the hitman.
Plus, anyone who knows boxing also knows that a fast fighter will appear even faster if he has the height and reach advantage on his opponent.... A taller fighter who keeps his distance and is punching downward will appear to be a speed demon to the max.....


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Old 11-27-2009, 08:45 PM   #58
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Default Re: Duran-Hearns

As Gilbert Clancy said in the post affair, Duran didn't have it from the opening bell.........


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Old 11-27-2009, 09:32 PM   #59
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Default Re: Duran-Hearns

I think Hearns would do that to Duran majority of the time. Duran has a style to give Hearns problems when he gets in tight but its getting in tight without getting nailed on the way in thats the problem, yes Duran slipped punches and moved his head when inside but he did not have the perpetual headmovement whilst moving foward he would of needed to close the distance on Hearns without getting hit, plus Duran was not great at cutting the ring off imo, and i believe came in straight a lot of the time.


Leonard had one of the best double jab right hands in the business, plus he was 5 ft 10 and a quicker than Duran.
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