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Old 10-20-2009, 07:21 AM   #1
Stevie G
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Default Could a prime Frazier defeat a prime Tyson ?

Apologies to MikeBrown for virtually plagarising his Foreman/Frazier thread This is another hypothetical fight where Joe would start as an underdog. We're talking the 1971 Joe Frazier v the 1988 Mike Tyson. Imo,although the odds would be stacked against Joe,it would n't be as cut and dried as it would against Foreman. I first present the case against Frazier beating Tyson. Joe was always a slow starter,and would soak up a lot of punches early on. This could spell disaster against an explosive starter like Tyson. It's quite feasible that Mike could unleash as much punishment on him as Foreman did,prompting the referee to save Frazier as early as the third or fourth round. Now the case for Joe beating Tyson. Tyson,although as explosive as Foreman,did n't have George's height and reach advantages over Frazier,so would have to come closer into Joe,thus putting him in range to take some punches in return. Supposing Tyson took enough punches from a hurt Frazier,to make him hesitate a little,letting Frazier come into the fight. It would then turn into a war of attrition. If that scenario occured,I could see Smokin'Joe stopping a discouraged Tyson in the latter stages of the fight.
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Old 10-20-2009, 07:24 AM   #2
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Default Re: Could a prime Frazier defeat a prime Tyson ?

Everything Joe does, Tyson does better: Better head movement for defense, more one - punch power. Joe had the heart and stamina but not the tools to defeat Tyson. Not having Foreman's height and reach isn't an issue, Tyson struggled with taller fighters who could box well like Tony Tucker. In a fight where he would be the slightly taller guy, he would be unstoppable.
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Old 10-20-2009, 07:43 AM   #3
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Default Re: Could a prime Frazier defeat a prime Tyson ?

He could, yes. I'd still make Tyson a big favourite to win though.
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Old 10-20-2009, 07:47 AM   #4
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Default Re: Could a prime Frazier defeat a prime Tyson ?

I think Frazier has a very good chance actually. Tyson could be a little overstated in his movements, for example, head movement generated at the waist. Tyson's head movement is overated slightly IMO (though I agree he was better here than Frazier), he could be timed - but you would need ice in your veins. Guess what? Joe has that. Imagine him timing a bobbing Tyson with that left hook? Horrible.

However, it was a lengthy jab that tended to invoke Tyson's exaggerated movement and Joe doesn't have that.

Frazier thought he could win, for whatever that is worth.
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Old 10-20-2009, 07:52 AM   #5
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Default Re: Could a prime Frazier defeat a prime Tyson ?

I won't say nothing new - Tyson KO in 1-5 or Frazier KO in 9-12
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Old 10-20-2009, 07:55 AM   #6
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Default Re: Could a prime Frazier defeat a prime Tyson ?

as said frazier was a slow starter,so for me as long as frazier is not to damaged after the first round he has a good chance and as McGrain said if tyson moves on to a left hook he could well go .i am going for frazier's heart to give him the edge
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Old 10-20-2009, 09:36 AM   #7
Quitali Bitchko
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Default Re: Could a prime Frazier defeat a prime Tyson ?

Yes. But he wouldnt.
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Old 10-20-2009, 09:37 AM   #8
Quitali Bitchko
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Default Re: Could a prime Frazier defeat a prime Tyson ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by McGrain View Post
I think Frazier has a very good chance actually. Tyson could be a little overstated in his movements, for example, head movement generated at the waist. Tyson's head movement is overated slightly IMO (though I agree he was better here than Frazier), he could be timed - but you would need ice in your veins. Guess what? Joe has that. Imagine him timing a bobbing Tyson with that left hook? Horrible.
I dont think so. Bruno, Lewis and Ruddock all had more power then Joe and all caught Tyson flush on so I dont think Joe could put Tyson in trouble with one left hook, no matter how good of a hooker Fraizer was.
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Old 10-20-2009, 09:38 AM   #9
Quitali Bitchko
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Default Re: Could a prime Frazier defeat a prime Tyson ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quitali Bitchko View Post
no matter how good of a hooker Fraizer was.
I just read this back and I Came off kinda funny sounding.
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Old 10-20-2009, 09:39 AM   #10
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Default Re: Could a prime Frazier defeat a prime Tyson ?

I rate Tyson highly but Frazier would beat Tyson up.
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Old 10-20-2009, 09:42 AM   #11
Quitali Bitchko
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Default Re: Could a prime Frazier defeat a prime Tyson ?

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Originally Posted by Unforgiven View Post
I rate Tyson highly but Frazier would beat Tyson up.
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Old 10-20-2009, 09:50 AM   #12
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Default Re: Could a prime Frazier defeat a prime Tyson ?

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Originally Posted by Quitali Bitchko View Post
I dont think so. Bruno, Lewis and Ruddock all had more power then Joe and all caught Tyson flush on so I dont think Joe could put Tyson in trouble with one left hook, no matter how good of a hooker Fraizer was.

Lewis put Tyson in terrible trouble by hitting him. IN fact Tyson, after an excellent first round, looked already-beaten after Lewis tagged him mightily with uppercuts in that first round.

Bruno may have had more power than Frazier, but he did not hit more perfectly, nor did he have great accuracy or volume for any follow up, like Frazier did.

Finally, we are not just talking here about a perfect Joe Frazier hook but (hypotheticaly) the additional pressure per square inch generated by Tyson coming back into the blow full speed.

All in all i'm pretty happy with my surmise - horrible.
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Old 10-20-2009, 09:59 AM   #13
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Default Re: Could a prime Frazier defeat a prime Tyson ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by McGrain View Post
Lewis put Tyson in terrible trouble by hitting him. IN fact Tyson, after an excellent first round, looked already-beaten after Lewis tagged him mightily with uppercuts in that first round.

Bruno may have had more power than Frazier, but he did not hit more perfectly, nor did he have great accuracy or volume for any follow up, like Frazier did.

Finally, we are not just talking here about a perfect Joe Frazier hook but (hypotheticaly) the additional pressure per square inch generated by Tyson coming back into the blow full speed.

All in all i'm pretty happy with my surmise - horrible.
How can you use the Tyson that fought Lewis as an example? Do you think Lewis would have hit Tyson that cleanly in 88?
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Old 10-20-2009, 10:01 AM   #14
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Default Re: Could a prime Frazier defeat a prime Tyson ?

I think its possible that a great fighter like Joe Frazier could have beaten Mike Tyson, but its probably not an outcome that I'd bet on.
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Old 10-20-2009, 10:05 AM   #15
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Default Re: Could a prime Frazier defeat a prime Tyson ?

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Originally Posted by lefthook31 View Post
How can you use the Tyson that fought Lewis as an example? Do you think Lewis would have hit Tyson that cleanly in 88?

Please try and follow the thread

1 - My opinion is that Tyson could be timed, yes in his prime. Yes, this opinion has been expressed earlier in the thread.

2 - I didn't raise the issue of Lewis-Tyson. It was raised by another poster in regards to Tyson's punch resistance. My reply was as narrow as this point, I was at no time trying to match Prime Frazier with Lewis Tyson.

3 - There are absolutely things to be learned about fighters post-prime, in the case of the truly great ones, like Ali, sometimes there is more to be learned about them when they lose the edge from their core skills.
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