Who has best chance of beating prime Larry Holmes

Stevie G · 10-22-2009, 07:14 AM

A similar thread was done on Ali a little while ago. Let's go with Mr.Holmes. Ones that I figure have the best chance are. The 1964-67 and 1972-74 versions of Muhammad Ali,FOTC Joe Frazier,Joe Louis and Rocky Marciano. George Foreman would always have a puncher's chance. Although I'd make Holmes favourite,I calculate that if Foreman caught him with a right the way Shavers did,George would n't let him off the hook. I can't discount Tyson here either,but I'd still make Larry the favourite. The only other one I'd give a fair to middling chance to is Lennox Lewis.

sugarsean · 10-22-2009, 08:06 AM

Muhammad Ali (1964-67)
George Foreman (1973-74)
Mike Tyson (198

Sonny Liston (1960-62)
Joe Frazier (1970-71)
Joe Louis (1938-39)

sugarsean · 10-22-2009, 08:08 AM

Muhammad Ali (1964-67)
George Foreman (1973-74)
Mike Tyson (198

Sonny Liston (1960-62)
Joe Frazier (1970-71)
Joe Louis (1938-39)

I like these kinda of thread's you should do more

McGrain · 10-22-2009, 08:08 AM

Joe Frazier would outpoint him on the pressure I feel. Might be close though.

Apparently Holmes felt that Sonny would be a tough one for him, which it really might have been given Liston's jab/power combo. I'll go with him, too.

Beeston Brawler · 10-22-2009, 09:17 AM

I think Holmes vs Lewis would be a very intriguing affair, wouldn't like to pick one aganist the other.

Both have excellent jabs, each could take the others punches - there is no obvious outcome.

turpinr · 10-22-2009, 09:23 AM

maybe ali or lewis.

bodhi · 10-22-2009, 10:28 AM

Not many that´s for sure!

The great swarmers at their best, meaning Marciano and Frazier. Guys with similar good jabs but more power, meaning Lewis and Liston.
Tyson´s style was made to fight guys with Holmes´ style so I suppose he too would stand good chances. And when Tyson can do it, I think Dempsey could do it too.
Wlad could trouble him a bit I think but if he can beat him? I don´t know. Possible.

So, seven fighters at best - no I don´t think Louis or Ali would beat him, both stand a chance of course.

turpinr · 10-22-2009, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bodhi

Not many that´s for sure!

The great swarmers at their best, meaning Marciano and Frazier. Guys with similar good jabs but more power, meaning Lewis and Liston.
Tyson´s style was made to fight guys with Holmes´ style so I suppose he too would stand good chances. And when Tyson can do it, I think Dempsey could do it too.
Wlad could trouble him a bit I think but if he can beat him? I don´t know. Possible.

So, seven fighters at best - no I don´t think Louis or Ali would beat him, both stand a chance of course.

marciano would have no chance against holmes,ever.

mcvey · 10-22-2009, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stevie G

A similar thread was done on Ali a little while ago. Let's go with Mr.Holmes. Ones that I figure have the best chance are. The 1964-67 and 1972-74 versions of Muhammad Ali,FOTC Joe Frazier,Joe Louis and Rocky Marciano. George Foreman would always have a puncher's chance. Although I'd make Holmes favourite,I calculate that if Foreman caught him with a right the way Shavers did,George would n't let him off the hook. I can't discount Tyson here either,but I'd still make Larry the favourite. The only other one I'd give a fair to middling chance to is Lennox Lewis.

Ali
Lewis
Liston.

Duodenum · 10-22-2009, 12:39 PM

Max Baer had the sort of crazed, free swinging unpredictablity and right hand which might allow him to spring an upset stoppage, according to some pundits who were analyzing Holmes (in KO Magazine?) during his prime. Max had stamina and durability which Shavers was lacking in, so maybe those prognosticators were onto something. (However, it should also be mentioned that the writers who produced this article also predicted that Leon Spinks, fresh off his stoppage of Mercado, was about to regain the title from Larry via a split 15 round decision. As we know, Holmes blew him out in four.) Maxie's stamina is critical here, as no single punch could have ever stopped Larry at his peak. (If this was possible, Shavers obviously would have done it.)

Ali is the safe answer here. While I believe Larry to have the best chance at decisioning a peak Muhammad, assuming Holmes has Futch in his corner, Ali actually has the greater margin for error regardless, and doesn't need to box the virtually perfect match Larry would have to. Folley and Lyle showed that it was possible to obtain a scoring lead on Muhammad when boxing smartly and conservatively, but maintaining that edge over 15 long rounds with somebody of Ali's endurance was another matter.

If anybody could realistically have managed to stop a peak Holmes, it would have been Louis with his combination punching. This isn't likely though, as Larry never froze into a stationary target when stunned. (Even peak Tyson had trouble putting him away, needing 45 seconds to get that final punch in. Although poorly prepared, Holmes came within five seconds of surviving the round, and likely would have had he not gotten his right arm caught in the ropes.)

Frazier's pressure would have made him a rugged challenge for Larry, but he wasn't particularly susceptible to the left hook, normally the most difficult of punches to defend against when properly executed. Unlike Smoke, Dempsey had the right hand to replicate the Shavers knockdown of Holmes.

Joe could get hit and hurt with the right uppercut, and the one Holmes decked Weaver with would have likely dropped Frazier as well. I believe Smoke was far more vulnerable to the right uppercut than Larry was to the hook.

Holmes-Liston would have been a compelling fencing match. Larry would need to get his jab off first, beating Sonny to the punch with superior speed. Mobility was a good way to survive against Liston, but that alone wouldn't help capture the scoring, or even come close to doing the job. It's all about the jab here.

At his best, Walcott could be a headache for anybody, but never had that aura of invincibility. He could handle a skilled boxer of Larry's size, but Holmes was not Hein Ten Hoff. Larry would have to be at his sharpest to take the decision here though.

werety · 10-22-2009, 01:57 PM

I've always felt that Tyson was the bane of Holmes. Obviously not much can be made from their actual fight as Holmes was way past it by then but Cus had pretty much designed Tyson to destroy a Holmes type fighter.

Rock0052 · 10-22-2009, 03:26 PM

I was trying to come up with a top 10 for this, but I've only come up with 9 I feel would have at least a decent to good shot at pulling off the deed. In no particular order: Tyson, Ali, Lewis, Dempsey, Frazier, the Klitschkos, Norton, and Louis stand the best chances in my opinion.

janitor · 10-22-2009, 03:28 PM

Holmes's style is a bit like marmite in that you either love it or hate it.

Personaly I think that the two groups of fighters that would spell the biggest trouble for him are:

A. The all time great finishers eg Dempsey, Louis, Tyson.

B. Pressure fighters such as Marciano and Frazier.

I would submit that sombody in group A would represent the biggest threat to him but that it would take an absolute elite level fighter of this type to pull it off.

In group B we would find more fighters who could beat him and it would not necisarily take an all time great to do it on a given day.

mr. magoo · 10-22-2009, 03:29 PM

Since the question is, " who has a chance? " Then I think there were quite a few names that could be listed. Would I actually "pick" most of them to do it initially? Probably not..

TommyV · 10-22-2009, 05:18 PM

A prime Sonny Liston. I'm assuming Liston has a slight reach advantage here, and obviously a great jab like Holmes'. I think Larry might pick off the the early rounds, but I think once Sonny gets his jab into action, Holmes might be discouraged into jabbing back when he's getting pummeled by Sonny's in return. Not to mention he could combine that with relatively under-rated skills and power.

10-22-2009, 07:14 AM	#1
Stevie G Undisputed Champion East Side VIP Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: London,England Posts: 10,638 vCash: 1000	Who has best chance of beating prime Larry Holmes A similar thread was done on Ali a little while ago. Let's go with Mr.Holmes. Ones that I figure have the best chance are. The 1964-67 and 1972-74 versions of Muhammad Ali,FOTC Joe Frazier,Joe Louis and Rocky Marciano. George Foreman would always have a puncher's chance. Although I'd make Holmes favourite,I calculate that if Foreman caught him with a right the way Shavers did,George would n't let him off the hook. I can't discount Tyson here either,but I'd still make Larry the favourite. The only other one I'd give a fair to middling chance to is Lennox Lewis.
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10-22-2009, 08:06 AM	#2
sugarsean Belt holder ESB Addict Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: England Posts: 2,381 vCash: 1057	Re: Who has best chance of beating prime Larry Holmes Muhammad Ali (1964-67) George Foreman (1973-74) Mike Tyson (198 Sonny Liston (1960-62) Joe Frazier (1970-71) Joe Louis (1938-39)
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10-22-2009, 08:08 AM	#3
sugarsean Belt holder ESB Addict Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: England Posts: 2,381 vCash: 1057	Re: Who has best chance of beating prime Larry Holmes Muhammad Ali (1964-67) George Foreman (1973-74) Mike Tyson (198 Sonny Liston (1960-62) Joe Frazier (1970-71) Joe Louis (1938-39) I like these kinda of thread's you should do more
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10-22-2009, 08:08 AM	#4
McGrain Diamond Dog East Side VIP Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 63,260 vCash: 1000	Re: Who has best chance of beating prime Larry Holmes Joe Frazier would outpoint him on the pressure I feel. Might be close though. Apparently Holmes felt that Sonny would be a tough one for him, which it really might have been given Liston's jab/power combo. I'll go with him, too.
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10-22-2009, 09:17 AM	#5
Beeston Brawler Comical Ali-egedly East Side VIP Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: trying to increase my overdraft.... Posts: 35,254 vCash: 75	Re: Who has best chance of beating prime Larry Holmes I think Holmes vs Lewis would be a very intriguing affair, wouldn't like to pick one aganist the other. Both have excellent jabs, each could take the others punches - there is no obvious outcome.
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10-22-2009, 09:23 AM	#6
turpinr Champion East Side Guru Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: lancashire Posts: 8,637 vCash: 1000	Re: Who has best chance of beating prime Larry Holmes maybe ali or lewis.
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10-22-2009, 10:28 AM	#7
bodhi So I can die easy ... East Side VIP Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 21,759 vCash: 1337	Re: Who has best chance of beating prime Larry Holmes Not many that´s for sure! The great swarmers at their best, meaning Marciano and Frazier. Guys with similar good jabs but more power, meaning Lewis and Liston. Tyson´s style was made to fight guys with Holmes´ style so I suppose he too would stand good chances. And when Tyson can do it, I think Dempsey could do it too. Wlad could trouble him a bit I think but if he can beat him? I don´t know. Possible. So, seven fighters at best - no I don´t think Louis or Ali would beat him, both stand a chance of course.
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10-22-2009, 12:39 PM	#10
Duodenum Champion East Side Guru Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 6,700 vCash: 1000	Re: Who has best chance of beating prime Larry Holmes Max Baer had the sort of crazed, free swinging unpredictablity and right hand which might allow him to spring an upset stoppage, according to some pundits who were analyzing Holmes (in KO Magazine?) during his prime. Max had stamina and durability which Shavers was lacking in, so maybe those prognosticators were onto something. (However, it should also be mentioned that the writers who produced this article also predicted that Leon Spinks, fresh off his stoppage of Mercado, was about to regain the title from Larry via a split 15 round decision. As we know, Holmes blew him out in four.) Maxie's stamina is critical here, as no single punch could have ever stopped Larry at his peak. (If this was possible, Shavers obviously would have done it.) Ali is the safe answer here. While I believe Larry to have the best chance at decisioning a peak Muhammad, assuming Holmes has Futch in his corner, Ali actually has the greater margin for error regardless, and doesn't need to box the virtually perfect match Larry would have to. Folley and Lyle showed that it was possible to obtain a scoring lead on Muhammad when boxing smartly and conservatively, but maintaining that edge over 15 long rounds with somebody of Ali's endurance was another matter. If anybody could realistically have managed to stop a peak Holmes, it would have been Louis with his combination punching. This isn't likely though, as Larry never froze into a stationary target when stunned. (Even peak Tyson had trouble putting him away, needing 45 seconds to get that final punch in. Although poorly prepared, Holmes came within five seconds of surviving the round, and likely would have had he not gotten his right arm caught in the ropes.) Frazier's pressure would have made him a rugged challenge for Larry, but he wasn't particularly susceptible to the left hook, normally the most difficult of punches to defend against when properly executed. Unlike Smoke, Dempsey had the right hand to replicate the Shavers knockdown of Holmes. Joe could get hit and hurt with the right uppercut, and the one Holmes decked Weaver with would have likely dropped Frazier as well. I believe Smoke was far more vulnerable to the right uppercut than Larry was to the hook. Holmes-Liston would have been a compelling fencing match. Larry would need to get his jab off first, beating Sonny to the punch with superior speed. Mobility was a good way to survive against Liston, but that alone wouldn't help capture the scoring, or even come close to doing the job. It's all about the jab here. At his best, Walcott could be a headache for anybody, but never had that aura of invincibility. He could handle a skilled boxer of Larry's size, but Holmes was not Hein Ten Hoff. Larry would have to be at his sharpest to take the decision here though.
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10-22-2009, 01:57 PM	#11
werety Belt holder ESB Addict Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 1,546 vCash: 1000	Re: Who has best chance of beating prime Larry Holmes I've always felt that Tyson was the bane of Holmes. Obviously not much can be made from their actual fight as Holmes was way past it by then but Cus had pretty much designed Tyson to destroy a Holmes type fighter.
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10-22-2009, 03:26 PM	#12
Rock0052 Champion East Side Guru Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 8,365 vCash: 75	Re: Who has best chance of beating prime Larry Holmes I was trying to come up with a top 10 for this, but I've only come up with 9 I feel would have at least a decent to good shot at pulling off the deed. In no particular order: Tyson, Ali, Lewis, Dempsey, Frazier, the Klitschkos, Norton, and Louis stand the best chances in my opinion.
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10-22-2009, 03:28 PM	#13
janitor P4P King East Side VIP Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 19,058 vCash: 1000	Re: Who has best chance of beating prime Larry Holmes Holmes's style is a bit like marmite in that you either love it or hate it. Personaly I think that the two groups of fighters that would spell the biggest trouble for him are: A. The all time great finishers eg Dempsey, Louis, Tyson. B. Pressure fighters such as Marciano and Frazier. I would submit that sombody in group A would represent the biggest threat to him but that it would take an absolute elite level fighter of this type to pull it off. In group B we would find more fighters who could beat him and it would not necisarily take an all time great to do it on a given day.
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10-22-2009, 03:29 PM	#14
mr. magoo Undisputed Champion East Side VIP Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Chicago, Illinois USA Posts: 12,517 vCash: 1000	Re: Who has best chance of beating prime Larry Holmes Since the question is, " who has a chance? " Then I think there were quite a few names that could be listed. Would I actually "pick" most of them to do it initially? Probably not..
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10-22-2009, 05:18 PM	#15
TommyV Spit That Mad Game Yo! East Side VIP Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: South-East/Greater London. Posts: 51,672 vCash: 1987	Re: Who has best chance of beating prime Larry Holmes A prime Sonny Liston. I'm assuming Liston has a slight reach advantage here, and obviously a great jab like Holmes'. I think Larry might pick off the the early rounds, but I think once Sonny gets his jab into action, Holmes might be discouraged into jabbing back when he's getting pummeled by Sonny's in return. Not to mention he could combine that with relatively under-rated skills and power.
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