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Old 09-27-2007, 03:35 PM   #61
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Default Re: Has Jermain Taylor Been Tested as Pavlik Was Tested Against Miranda?

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Originally Posted by capfunds
That won't work against Pavlik, he'll have to get too close.

You tie up short guys.
You could be right. We'll see.
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Old 09-27-2007, 03:50 PM   #62
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Default Re: Has Jermain Taylor Been Tested as Pavlik Was Tested Against Miranda?

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Originally Posted by Zakman
No, I do not - and indeed it is the first Hopkins decision that gave rise to my outraged, which has only been compounded by the others. Hopkins was a long-time champ, and in a close fight should have - and WOULD have were it not for the influence of HBO and Hopkins' unpopularity with the boxing establishment - been given the benefit of the doubt on the scorecards. That he was not goes against all boxing tradition, and really caused me to question the legitimacy of this decision.
Sorry, you've said this before and I don't buy it. Nowhere in the rule book does it require a judge to honour this tradition and give the benefit of the doubt to the champ.
And many fans, like myself, think this is a bad, bad idea and would only compound problems in scoring.

Basically, you're complaining about unfair scoring, yet you're coming out and advocating it as long as it benefits the champ.
That is utter nonsense.

If the final round of a championship fight was clearly won by the challenger yet the judge gave it to the champ simply because the fight was close, would you have a problem with this? Because, this so called tradition could be interpreted in many different ways.

Actually, I have a better idea, how about judges score bouts fairly without regard for who is the champ and who is the challenger.

As I see it, this whole thing about boxing tradition demanding that the champ get the nod in a close fight, is nothing more than a way for fans of the champ to whine and bitch when a decision doesn't go their way.

I'll ask again, which rounds in the first Hopkins fight which we're scored by Lederman for Taylor, should have without a doubt went to Bernard?

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This was only compounded by the decision in the second fight, which, while seemingly closer, in my view should have gone to Hopkins. And then, the Wright fight, imo, simply sealed the deal - there is CLEARLY something rotten going on here.
But, by your logic because Taylor was now the champ, he rightfully deserved the decision since the fight was close.
Ah, but let me guess, you don't think Taylor should have been given that benefit since the first fight was controversial and he didn't have the history as champion that Bernard had.
So, yet again, the rule gets interpreted differently due to special circumstances. Hmmm, it's sure hard to define this rule in any meaningful way.

Let me ask, should state athletic commisions consult with you before each fight to determine how this tradition should be implented? (since it doesn't actually appear in the rulebook).

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I hate how this sport is corrupted by the influence of powerful TV networks and the big promoters like King. That's why I can't stand fighters like Ruiz or Taylor who attain statuses they wouldn't have otherwise achieved without the undue influence of corrupting forces. I will say this for Taylor, however - unlike Ruiz, at least he has SOME boxing ability. It won't be enough for him to beat a hard-hitting true middleweight like Pavlik, however.
I'm not saying it isn't possible that networks have influence over fights. But you've done nothing in the way of providing evidence to prove it. Repeating a claim over and over just based on a hunch doesn't make it so.
Sorry.

As for the fight itself, only time will tell
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Old 09-27-2007, 04:06 PM   #63
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Default Re: Has Jermain Taylor Been Tested as Pavlik Was Tested Against Miranda?

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Originally Posted by Boinko
They often learn the lesson after the fight is over. I'm quite expecting the fight with Pavlik to go the distance.
Right now, Kelly's performance against Miranda is in everyone's mind, and it's given Pavlik this status as a massive puncher who can't be stopped. Well, there is no way in hell that Jermain is going to employ a strategy like Miranda did. Miranda was incredibly sloppy and one dimensional. It doesn't mean Pavlik wasn't impressive, because he was, but I'm not using that fight as a guage of what'll happen on Saturday.
Good post!
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Old 09-27-2007, 04:07 PM   #64
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Default Re: Has Jermain Taylor Been Tested as Pavlik Was Tested Against Miranda?

The more important question is has Pavlik been tested with a guy that is as multi dimensional as Taylor? Thats way more important than fighting a guy with good power, but is one dimensional. Pavlik shows he has a good chin, but he hasnt shown me he can be competitive with a guy that can do a few extra things like Taylor can. We will soon find that out.
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Old 09-27-2007, 04:09 PM   #65
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Default Re: Has Jermain Taylor Been Tested as Pavlik Was Tested Against Miranda?

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Originally Posted by Ambition_Def
While Taylor has the obvious edge in experience I find it funny and ironic that in all of his tests, he does not have experience with a big puncher like Pavlik.

This fight may prove to be a newer experience for Taylor than for Pavlik in that regard.
Pavlik does not have experience with someone as complete as Taylor? He's miles beyond anyone Pavlik's faced.
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Old 09-27-2007, 04:11 PM   #66
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Default Re: Has Jermain Taylor Been Tested as Pavlik Was Tested Against Miranda?

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Originally Posted by lefthook31
The more important question is has Pavlik been tested with a guy that is as multi dimensional as Taylor? Thats way more important than fighting a guy with good power, but is one dimensional. Pavlik shows he has a good chin, but he hasnt shown me he can be competitive with a guy that can do a few extra things like Taylor can. We will soon find that out.
Good post, you beat me to it.
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Old 09-27-2007, 08:21 PM   #67
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Default Re: Has Jermain Taylor Been Tested as Pavlik Was Tested Against Miranda?

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Originally Posted by El Bombasto
pavlik dominated miranda, the fight wasn't even competitive. how is that a gut check?
Pavlik dominated Miranda in the sense that he won most rounds and got he KO, but he took a walloping at times to do it.

You can dominate your man in boxing and also catch some serious shots along the way.

And Marnoff.. I did not clame Pavlik has fought better fighters, only that he has been in a serious scrap recently in which he had to take serious shots. Thats all.
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Old 09-27-2007, 08:24 PM   #68
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Default Re: Has Jermain Taylor Been Tested as Pavlik Was Tested Against Miranda?

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Originally Posted by lefthook31
The more important question is has Pavlik been tested with a guy that is as multi dimensional as Taylor? Thats way more important than fighting a guy with good power, but is one dimensional. Pavlik shows he has a good chin, but he hasnt shown me he can be competitive with a guy that can do a few extra things like Taylor can. We will soon find that out.
I dont think of Taylor as a multi-dimensional fighter in any sense. I see him as an athletic, super talented, strong fighter with basicaly a 1-2 and a clinch at this point. I actualy thought he had more dimensions to his game when he was younger and coming up.

He does more in the sense of variety than Miranda, but come on we are not talking about PBF or SRR here.
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Old 09-30-2007, 12:17 PM   #69
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Default Re: Has Jermain Taylor Been Tested as Pavlik Was Tested Against Miranda?

Hate to say it, but I told you so.

In Larry Merchants words, one man got off the canvas and one did not.
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