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Old 11-04-2009, 11:18 AM   #1
Manassa
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Default Benny Leonard was the greatest lightweight of all time - by a long way

Roberto Duran:

Ken Buchanan
Ray Lampkin
Esteban De Jesus (x2)
Edwin Viruet (x2)

Benny Leonard:

Willie Ritchie
Johnny Kilbane
Jack Britton (x2)
Lew Tendler (x2)
Freddie Welsh (x2)
Soldier Bartfield (x3)
Johnny Dundee (x4)
Rocky Kansas (x4)

Doesn't this just speak for itself?

Yes, Leonard lost every once in a while, but you're talking about an era where you might fight four times in as many weeks. Nobody had a record like Leonard's back then apart from Harry Greb.

You can say Duran was better, and use that as part of your criteria - but if accomplishments are what you go by, there's no denying Benny Leonard.
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Old 11-04-2009, 11:54 AM   #2
GPater11093
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Default Re: Benny Leonard was the greatest lightweight of all time - by a long way

thats very impressive, as much as i like Leonard and ive read afew figth reports and watched the film of him never really looked at his accomplishments.

hat was teh criterea for your lists?
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Old 11-04-2009, 12:00 PM   #3
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Default Re: Benny Leonard was the greatest lightweight of all time - by a long way

Quote:
Originally Posted by Manassa View Post
Roberto Duran:

Ken Buchanan
Ray Lampkin
Esteban De Jesus (x2)
Edwin Viruet (x2)

Benny Leonard:

Willie Ritchie
Johnny Kilbane
Jack Britton (x2)
Lew Tendler (x2)
Freddie Welsh (x2)
Soldier Bartfield (x3)
Johnny Dundee (x4)
Rocky Kansas (x4)

Doesn't this just speak for itself?

Yes, Leonard lost every once in a while, but you're talking about an era where you might fight four times in as many weeks. Nobody had a record like Leonard's back then apart from Harry Greb.

You can say Duran was better, and use that as part of your criteria - but if accomplishments are what you go by, there's no denying Benny Leonard.
I see you have changed your opinion,when I first read your posts ,you rated Duran number one.
This demonstrates an admirable open mind and the capacity to learn.
Or that, maybe, you are on the gear again.
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Old 11-04-2009, 12:01 PM   #4
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Default Re: Benny Leonard was the greatest lightweight of all time - by a long way

benny leonard's not in my top 10,sorry
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Old 11-04-2009, 12:07 PM   #5
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Default Re: Benny Leonard was the greatest lightweight of all time - by a long way

Napoles and Duran would have beat the shit out of him at LW, Mayweather and Whitaker would clearly outbox and outspeed him at the weight. Great legacy or not, the number of names can get overrated
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Old 11-04-2009, 12:11 PM   #6
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Default Re: Benny Leonard was the greatest lightweight of all time - by a long way

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Napoles and Duran would have beat the shit out of him at LW, Mayweather and Whitaker would clearly outbox and outspeed him at the weight. Great legacy or not, the number of names can get overrated
ike williams would have KO'd leonard.duran would have taken him apart.imo
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Old 11-04-2009, 12:20 PM   #7
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Default Re: Benny Leonard was the greatest lightweight of all time - by a long way

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Originally Posted by turpinr View Post
benny leonard's not in my top 10,sorry
That's an absurd notion that can't be backed by anything. You've lost before the argument has even begun.
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Old 11-04-2009, 12:21 PM   #8
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Default Re: Benny Leonard was the greatest lightweight of all time - by a long way

i think he meant P4P
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Old 11-04-2009, 12:30 PM   #9
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Default Re: Benny Leonard was the greatest lightweight of all time - by a long way

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i think he meant P4P
,he's not in my top 10 lightweights.
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Old 11-04-2009, 12:38 PM   #10
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Default Re: Benny Leonard was the greatest lightweight of all time - by a long way

who you got instead of him then
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Old 11-04-2009, 12:45 PM   #11
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Default Re: Benny Leonard was the greatest lightweight of all time - by a long way

duran,williams,arguello,buchanan,brown,canzoneri,whittaker,armstrong,ortiz and one other that escapes me.
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Old 11-04-2009, 12:48 PM   #12
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Default Re: Benny Leonard was the greatest lightweight of all time - by a long way

how can you have arguably the most dominant Lightweight Champion ever. Aswell as other things

not be in the top 10

Lightweigth is very deep but i dont think theres 5 names i would have over Leonard.

And as much as im a fan of Arguello he didnt do enough at Lightweight to be in the top 10
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Old 11-04-2009, 12:50 PM   #13
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Default Re: Benny Leonard was the greatest lightweight of all time - by a long way

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Originally Posted by GPater11093 View Post
how can you have arguably the most dominant Lightweight Champion ever. Aswell as other things

not be in the top 10

Lightweigth is very deep but i dont think theres 5 names i would have over Leonard.

And as much as im a fan of Arguello he didnt do enough at Lightweight to be in the top 10
arguello would get rid of leonard easily
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Old 11-04-2009, 12:58 PM   #14
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Default Re: Benny Leonard was the greatest lightweight of all time - by a long way

Quote:
Originally Posted by Manassa View Post
Roberto Duran:

Ken Buchanan
Ray Lampkin
Esteban De Jesus (x2)
Edwin Viruet (x2)

Benny Leonard:

Willie Ritchie
Johnny Kilbane
Jack Britton (x2)
Lew Tendler (x2)
Freddie Welsh (x2)
Soldier Bartfield (x3)
Johnny Dundee (x4)
Rocky Kansas (x4)

Doesn't this just speak for itself?

Yes, Leonard lost every once in a while, but you're talking about an era where you might fight four times in as many weeks. Nobody had a record like Leonard's back then apart from Harry Greb.

You can say Duran was better, and use that as part of your criteria - but if accomplishments are what you go by, there's no denying Benny Leonard.
Saoul Mamby and Ernesto Marcel were no walk-overs.

To judge the standing of a fighter based on one criteria is incomplete -even if it is the most important critieria like "quality of opposition". That being said, a good case can be made about Leonard being the greatest LW who ever lived. I'd give him a slight edge with not only quality of opposition, but with ring generalship, and dominance as well.

However, I do not believe that a strong case can be made that The Ghetto Wizard is greater than the Hands of Stone on a p4p basis. Duran's "longevity", "performance against larger men", and arguably "experience" pull him ahead there. Rightly or wrongly, I have Duran ahead partly because his win against Leonard and Barkley really magnify his greatness in his natural division.
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Old 11-04-2009, 12:58 PM   #15
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Default Re: Benny Leonard was the greatest lightweight of all time - by a long way

EDIT: Mango.
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