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Old 11-19-2009, 10:26 AM   #16
Bummy Davis
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Default Re: Was Angelo Dundee a great trainer or a yes man

Dundee was a great finishing trainer as he showed with Pastrano,Ali and Leonard. The Dundee family also had a lot of clout in the boxing world and this helped Ali in many ways. Angelo was also very loyal and he showed it with Ali and Leonard...He was a big advantage and plus when it came to these fighters
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Old 11-19-2009, 10:27 AM   #17
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Default Re: Was Angelo Dundee a great trainer or a yes man

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Dundee knew how to deal with fighters. Training an experienced Leonard, Foreman or indeed Ali, sometimes all you needed to be was a cheerleader (which I think many charge Dundee with being) that stoked up the ego to help motivate the fighter.

But Dundee knew his stuff, and thus attracted some of the best fighters of this era.
Yes he did. He made Berbick wear black trunks to the Tyson fight to piss off Tyson, because the champion always got first choice of trunk color and the challenger couldnt wear the same. He ripped his fighters gloves when they needed a breather. He knew all the little tricks that he would never get away with these days.
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Old 11-19-2009, 10:47 AM   #18
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Default Re: Was Angelo Dundee a great trainer or a yes man

my comment wont hold much weight cause ive never been trained by Dundee or been around a gym with him.

But i wouldnt say he was a great TRAINER in the typical sense as he didnt really train his guys. He was the old school trainer think Arcel kinda mould. He came in on the last few weeks of training and just did the finishing off. And he was just your gym rat with good observations in sparring etc.. but he dosent strike me as the guy that would be doing conditioning with his fighters and making them do rounds on bags there would be someone else doing that. I think he has admitted to not being your typical trainer.

A good analogy IMO is that you have the trainers who train the guys day to day they are like a file slowly shaping the metal roughly then Angelo Dundee is the emery cloth that just smooths it off into a nice shiny finish

He must be good at what he did though. Also he was a greta cornerman theres not much more gusy i would want ahead of Dundee in my corner. Just so savvy.
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Old 11-19-2009, 11:01 AM   #19
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Default Re: Was Angelo Dundee a great trainer or a yes man

He was the perfect trainer for Muhammad Ali. Just basically let the champ get on with it. Eddie Futch was brilliant,perhaps the best,but he and Muhammad would have clashed. Dundee was content to take the background role required of him.
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Old 11-19-2009, 11:08 AM   #20
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Default Re: Was Angelo Dundee a great trainer or a yes man

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my comment wont hold much weight cause ive never been trained by Dundee or been around a gym with him.

But i wouldnt say he was a great TRAINER in the typical sense as he didnt really train his guys. He was the old school trainer think Arcel kinda mould. He came in on the last few weeks of training and just did the finishing off. And he was just your gym rat with good observations in sparring etc.. but he dosent strike me as the guy that would be doing conditioning with his fighters and making them do rounds on bags there would be someone else doing that. I think he has admitted to not being your typical trainer.

A good analogy IMO is that you have the trainers who train the guys day to day they are like a file slowly shaping the metal roughly then Angelo Dundee is the emery cloth that just smooths it off into a nice shiny finish

He must be good at what he did though. Also he was a greta cornerman theres not much more gusy i would want ahead of Dundee in my corner. Just so savvy.
Just because your not working the pads with your fighter doesnt mean your not a good trainer. I think your describing the older version of Dundee as well. He was around when he was younger, but youre somewhat right in that assistants took a lot of the daily routines, but I dont discount him for that. He ultimately sets the gameplan and is in control of the fight and the fighters mind which is the most important. Most of the old school trainers had assitants, including Futch and D'amato, etc. Emanuel Steward is one of the few older guys who actually gets in the ring and works the mitts with his fighters, but eventually that will stop too. Freddie Roach, was an assitant to Futch, as was Thell Thorrance. When these guys go away to training camp, their trainer is there on a daily basis.
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Old 11-19-2009, 11:11 AM   #21
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Default Re: Was Angelo Dundee a great trainer or a yes man

im not saying he isnt a good trainer im just not saying he was the nowaday typical trainer

i think Dundee is an excellant trainer
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Old 11-19-2009, 11:13 AM   #22
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Default Re: Was Angelo Dundee a great trainer or a yes man

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im not saying he isnt a good trainer im just not saying he was the nowaday typical trainer

i think Dundee is an excellant trainer
I know.. I wasnt directing that to you per say just making a point, the ways of trainers have changed. You have all these former assistants as main trainers now so they're carrying on how they came up.
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Old 11-19-2009, 11:33 AM   #23
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Default Re: Was Angelo Dundee a great trainer or a yes man

I personally think he was a better motivator for his fighters than he was on strategy. He knew his technical side but it's his motivational qualities that stand out in the corner.
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Old 11-19-2009, 11:34 AM   #24
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Default Re: Was Angelo Dundee a great trainer or a yes man

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He's underrated, certainly on this forum.
True. Who can forget his written message for Leonard before the Benitez fight?
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Old 11-19-2009, 02:21 PM   #25
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Default Re: Was Angelo Dundee a great trainer or a yes man

I give him lots of credit, but he also had all the luck for training naturally talented fighters.

He's the Phil Jackson of this sport.
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Old 11-19-2009, 03:15 PM   #26
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Default Re: Was Angelo Dundee a great trainer or a yes man

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Sweet story.

I remember him working with a Scandinavian light heavy back then, too. The guy was talented but kept getting KO'd when he stepped up. I forget his name.

I got to admit I used to underrate Angelo, mostly due to his involvement with Ali when Ali should not have been fighting.
ole klemetsen?
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Old 11-19-2009, 03:34 PM   #27
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Default Re: Was Angelo Dundee a great trainer or a yes man

No, but team Duva with George Benton were. Likewise with Tito Lectoure.
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Old 11-19-2009, 04:39 PM   #28
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Default Re: Was Angelo Dundee a great trainer or a yes man

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I give him lots of credit, but he also had all the luck for training naturally talented fighters.

He's the Phil Jackson of this sport.
It really doesnt matter how much talent you have. If its not guided correctly it wont succeed. Phil Jackson is a perfect example. The Lakers couldnt do shit with all the talent they had until Phil showed up.
Look what Emanuel Steward did for Lennox Lewis. Look what Freddie Roach has done with Manny Pac. It takes a well trained eye to spot that talent.
In the immortal words of Cus D'amto, "I uncover and discover. I see a spark. I feed the spark until becomes a flame. I feed the flame until it becomes a roaring blaze". One of the things that is most overated on this board is the importance of a good boxing mind in a fighters corner. Its like having the best and fastest race car. If you dont know how to drive it what good is it? The boxer trainer relationship is paramount to success, especially prolonged success. Look at fighters who change trainers a lot, there is a lot of inconsistency in their performances.
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Old 11-19-2009, 04:47 PM   #29
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Default Re: Was Angelo Dundee a great trainer or a yes man

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He's the Phil Jackson of this sport.
Gets flattened by Razor and Lennox...
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Old 11-19-2009, 05:22 PM   #30
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Default Re: Was Angelo Dundee a great trainer or a yes man

dundee was clever. he trained ali in a clever way - he never told him to do this and that which ali hated. he just brought the training into normal conversation. e.g. man that left uppercut you threw was beautiful - the way you pivoted on your front foot which drove your hip and body into it. dundee was crafty - he was training ali without him knowing it.
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