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Old 10-04-2007, 02:21 PM   #1
MrStayman
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Default Lingering questions about Taylor/Pavlik

1. BHop said in an interview that Pavlik vs. Duddy was bad for boxing, and the fight was being mentioned because Arum wants revenge on Dibella for putting in the rematch clause. Does anyone understand what BHop is talking about?

2. BHop said that Pavlik was good, but "hype." But, he also said Pavlik would beat Winky and stands a good chance vs. Kessler. Isn't this contradictory, or is he just saying that Pavlik isn't a top pound for pound fighter?

3. Taylor kept saying that he underrated Pavlik's hand speed. I would go as far as to say that Taylor implied this was a big factor in why he lost. So, what is the truth? Does Pavlik have slow, mediocre, above average, or fast hand speed?

4. After the fight, Lampley asked Lennox: "Is there something deceptive about Pavlik? I'm talking about the pale skin, lanky body, muscle definition..."

Did he really mean to mention Pavlik's skin color, or was he just not thinking about what he said?

5. Steward was receiving pressure in the post fight conference about how he told Taylor that he was losing the fight, despite being up on the cards. He defended himself by saying that it was clear that Pavlik was controlling the fight, and he thought Taylor would lose if the fight continued in the same way.
Is it just me, or is he full of ****?

---------------------
Those are basically the biggest questions that I haven't found a good answer to.
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Old 10-04-2007, 02:25 PM   #2
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Default Re: Lingering questions about Taylor/Pavlik

Oh yeah, one more:

6. If the rematch is fought at 168, doesn't that mean the belts will not be on the line? How come Taylor keeps saying that he'll get his belts back?
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Old 10-04-2007, 02:26 PM   #3
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Default Re: Lingering questions about Taylor/Pavlik

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrStayman
Oh yeah, one more:

6. If the rematch is fought at 168, doesn't that mean the belts will not be on the line? How come Taylor keeps saying that he'll get his belts back?
Because he's a simple minded fellow?
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Old 10-04-2007, 02:59 PM   #4
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Default Re: Lingering questions about Taylor/Pavlik

well b-hop can say what he wants. just like anyone else, he has an opinion. yes it seems a little contradictory, but then maybe he is insinuating that pavlik is hype, so if it's a close fight, so is kessler and winky etc.

but he didn't say calzaghe is hype. why? cause calzaghe is getting long in the tooth but is more famous than kessler which will make for a VERY nice fight and payday for b-hop. im sure he doesn't think kessler is "hype" like he claimed pavlik to be, BUT kessler is a lot younger and not well known compared to calzaghe so it's basically a business move.

manny steward was full of **** before the fight but not because he truly underestimated pavlik. i still believe he realised full well what they were getting themselves into, BUT he knew taylor is a confidence fighter in someways, which i feel explains the lack of stamina he often displays through getting too nervous. he was saying all sorts of things. but during the fight, especially after pavlik survived the second round, he knew -like i felt as well- that it would be danger time for taylor. afterall, the last thing you want your nervous fighter to see is an opponent come back stronger after you throw everything at them!

manny is a realist once in the ring. sometimes he seems too hard on his fighter but it beats saying everything is fine when it's NOT! (i felt pavlik was winning all rounds except 4th i think it was, and taylor and manny thought they were behind)

manny bull****ed pre-fight simply to boost his fighters confidence, but cut all that out after the third round when pavlik displayed his maturity and will to win. also being ringside manny got a real good look at pavliks deciveing power. those jabs were hurtin', and he admitted afterwards he didn't think pavlik was THAT strong.

as for lampley, he probably fully intended that remark. and he isn't being racist or trying to create some drama. what he was saying and i believe it's quite true, is that there might be mexicans and blacks out there that think they can beat pavlik cause he's a skinny white kid from the midwest and therefore not as tough as them. so if they under prepare, or go all mucho and try and take bombs on the chin cause they believe they can walk through him, boom! they'll wind up on the canvas wondering what had happened.

i highly doubt there will be many fighters who would think that now, after pavlik dethroned taylor, but nevertheless, it's not exactly an impossible scenario either. afterall, the old saying: "never bet on the white guy" didn't come from nothing.

as for taylor getting his belts back if he beats pavlik at 164 i believe the catchweight is. i dont think he meant it literally, but rather spiritually. i mean i know it's 4 pounds over the limit, but if he beats pavlik, he's regained his personal "title". perfectly reasonable for a fighter to want that revenge. but of course if he meant it literally, then yes he is a little stupid!

i believe taylor truly underestimated pavliks handspeed. pavlik might not move his feet or upper body quickly, but his hands can be fast when they need too. afterall part of pavlik's success as a great finisher, is the sheer number of shots he can land when he has his man hurt. and with power too! pavlik only flurries and such if it's the right move at the time. not purely for flashyness to catch the judges eye. all calculated shots to break em down. put it this way, pavlik is fast enough to outjab a fast jabber by his power combined with very good speed. and he was winning the boxing contest so while he's not fast all over, (feet, torso movement etc), his hands and even the slight head movement to slip punches is quick enough to give the speedy taylor all sorts of trouble, and ultimatley ktfo. a slow plodder, would be reduced to hail mary punches to catch someone like taylor. pavlik moved simply when he saw an opening. so it's a kostya tyszu type speed. plod.. plod.. bangbangbang! plod.. plod...

well that's my two cents on the questions!
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Old 10-04-2007, 03:04 PM   #5
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Default Re: Lingering questions about Taylor/Pavlik

Manny was right the judges were wrong.
the belts will only be on the line at 160.
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Old 10-04-2007, 03:19 PM   #6
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Default Re: Lingering questions about Taylor/Pavlik

Quote:
Originally Posted by dragosuhail
well b-hop can say what he wants. just like anyone else, he has an opinion. yes it seems a little contradictory, but then maybe he is insinuating that pavlik is hype, so if it's a close fight, so is kessler and winky etc.

but he didn't say calzaghe is hype. why? cause calzaghe is getting long in the tooth but is more famous than kessler which will make for a VERY nice fight and payday for b-hop. im sure he doesn't think kessler is "hype" like he claimed pavlik to be, BUT kessler is a lot younger and not well known compared to calzaghe so it's basically a business move.

manny steward was full of **** before the fight but not because he truly underestimated pavlik. i still believe he realised full well what they were getting themselves into, BUT he knew taylor is a confidence fighter in someways, which i feel explains the lack of stamina he often displays through getting too nervous. he was saying all sorts of things. but during the fight, especially after pavlik survived the second round, he knew -like i felt as well- that it would be danger time for taylor. afterall, the last thing you want your nervous fighter to see is an opponent come back stronger after you throw everything at them!

manny is a realist once in the ring. sometimes he seems too hard on his fighter but it beats saying everything is fine when it's NOT! (i felt pavlik was winning all rounds except 4th i think it was, and taylor and manny thought they were behind)

manny bull****ed pre-fight simply to boost his fighters confidence, but cut all that out after the third round when pavlik displayed his maturity and will to win. also being ringside manny got a real good look at pavliks deciveing power. those jabs were hurtin', and he admitted afterwards he didn't think pavlik was THAT strong.

as for lampley, he probably fully intended that remark. and he isn't being racist or trying to create some drama. what he was saying and i believe it's quite true, is that there might be mexicans and blacks out there that think they can beat pavlik cause he's a skinny white kid from the midwest and therefore not as tough as them. so if they under prepare, or go all mucho and try and take bombs on the chin cause they believe they can walk through him, boom! they'll wind up on the canvas wondering what had happened.

i highly doubt there will be many fighters who would think that now, after pavlik dethroned taylor, but nevertheless, it's not exactly an impossible scenario either. afterall, the old saying: "never bet on the white guy" didn't come from nothing.

as for taylor getting his belts back if he beats pavlik at 164 i believe the catchweight is. i dont think he meant it literally, but rather spiritually. i mean i know it's 4 pounds over the limit, but if he beats pavlik, he's regained his personal "title". perfectly reasonable for a fighter to want that revenge. but of course if he meant it literally, then yes he is a little stupid!

i believe taylor truly underestimated pavliks handspeed. pavlik might not move his feet or upper body quickly, but his hands can be fast when they need too. afterall part of pavlik's success as a great finisher, is the sheer number of shots he can land when he has his man hurt. and with power too! pavlik only flurries and such if it's the right move at the time. not purely for flashyness to catch the judges eye. all calculated shots to break em down. put it this way, pavlik is fast enough to outjab a fast jabber by his power combined with very good speed. and he was winning the boxing contest so while he's not fast all over, (feet, torso movement etc), his hands and even the slight head movement to slip punches is quick enough to give the speedy taylor all sorts of trouble, and ultimatley ktfo. a slow plodder, would be reduced to hail mary punches to catch someone like taylor. pavlik moved simply when he saw an opening. so it's a kostya tyszu type speed. plod.. plod.. bangbangbang! plod.. plod...

well that's my two cents on the questions!
That all makes sense... thanks for answering.
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Old 10-04-2007, 03:24 PM   #7
Vincent Gottschalk
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Default Re: Lingering questions about Taylor/Pavlik

I can't see why Hopkins see Pavlik vs Duddy is bad for boxing? Style wise it's going a all out action fight that will fill the Garden and get lots of media attention. True Pavlik will most likely stop Duddy in five but while lasts it's gonna be fun
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Old 10-04-2007, 03:29 PM   #8
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Default Re: Lingering questions about Taylor/Pavlik

Quote:
Originally Posted by El Rey
1. Hops needs to shut the **** up!

2. Hops needs to shut the **** up and join the Larry Merchant 'I'm old a **** so someone retire me with a bullet to the head' retirement tour.

3. Kelly's hands are prety slow, and that's coming from me, a Pavlik supporter. Though his timing is great and the downgrading of slow hands is highly exaggerated in boxing. Even slow handed fighters can still land at high rates.

4. I think he meant to say it, but maybe he was referring to the fact that Pale skinned fighters have flaws such as cutting very easily.

5. Taylor was losing the fight IMO. Taylor even said himself that he felt was losing the fight as well. So no, Manny isn't full of ****. Not this time anyway.

6. Pavlik has already stated that he will stay at 160 and defend his title versus the middleweight elite, so if Taylor wants a rematch he'll have to stay at 160. The champ dictates the terms, not the challenger... and no, if the fight was held at 168 the middleweight title wouldn't be on the line. For a championship to be on the line the fight has to be held within the weight limits of the division it represents.
A bit on what you say here...Pavliks right hand aint too quick, but his jab is, and very effective...The fight at 168 makes no sense= who gains??
The rest of what you said is on the mark, except after 6, I thought they were even
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Old 10-04-2007, 03:45 PM   #9
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Default Re: Lingering questions about Taylor/Pavlik

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrvooh
A bit on what you say here...Pavliks right hand aint too quick, but his jab is, and very effective...The fight at 168 makes no sense= who gains??
The rest of what you said is on the mark, except after 6, I thought they were even
The thought was that if Taylor had trouble making weight, and Pavlik overpowered him because of it that Taylor could rematch Pavlik at a higher weight so Taylor could prove himself worthy of facing the winner of Calzaghe/Kessler despite losing his belts to Pavlik.

Though it does look like Taylor's having second thoughts as he's proclaimed he had no trouble making weight this time and my press for a rematch at 160 with the belts on the line.
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