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Old 11-20-2009, 08:47 PM   #16
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Default Re: Who did you have winning, J L Ramirez vs Edwin Rosario

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Yeah great little fight.

No 24/7 needed, no hype, no bullshit, just two really good fighters going at it on neutral territory in front of a small but appreciative crowd.
Yep you hit the nail right on the head.

What was your take on Randall as a fighter ?
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Old 11-20-2009, 08:58 PM   #17
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Yep you hit the nail right on the head.

What was your take on Randall as a fighter ?
I wasn't really big on his skills, but he was a really tough guy with good stamina and a good punch.

I definitely think he would have beaten the likes of Cotto and Hatton at 140.

It's a pity he did nothing during what should have been the peak years of his career (88-92), where he could have built himself a truly fine legacy.

Would have loved to have seen him fight Buddy MCGirt, Hector Camacho, Rafael Pineda and eventually Sweet Pea. He might have come up short against Pea, but those other fights would have been winnable for him if he was at his best (a McGirt fight would have been close to a 50-50, but I'd slightly favour Buddy).
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Old 11-20-2009, 09:08 PM   #18
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Default Re: Who did you have winning, J L Ramirez vs Edwin Rosario

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I wasn't really big on his skills, but he was a really tough guy with good stamina and a good punch.

I definitely think he would have beaten the likes of Cotto and Hatton at 140.

It's a pity he did nothing during what should have been the peak years of his career (88-92), where he could have built himself a truly fine legacy.

Would have loved to have seen him fight Buddy MCGirt, Hector Camacho, Rafael Pineda and eventually Sweet Pea. He might have come up short against Pea, but those other fights would have been winnable for him if he was at his best (a McGirt fight would have been close to a 50-50, but I'd slightly favour Buddy).
Good read, do you think he would of beat a prime Chavez ?
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Old 11-20-2009, 09:13 PM   #19
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Default Re: Who did you have winning, J L Ramirez vs Edwin Rosario

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Good read, do you think he would of beat a prime Chavez ?
No I don't think so, but he always gives him a good competitive scrap.
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Old 11-20-2009, 09:17 PM   #20
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Default Re: Who did you have winning, J L Ramirez vs Edwin Rosario

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No I don't think so, but he always gives him a good competitive scrap.
So at what point do you think Chavez started to slip?
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Old 11-20-2009, 09:29 PM   #21
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Default Re: Who did you have winning, J L Ramirez vs Edwin Rosario

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So at what point do you think Chavez started to slip?
I think he had some good early performances at 130 (Martinez, Mayweather) but then he started getting too big for the weight and started putting in some lacklustre performances after draining himself to make 130 (Laporte, Lockridge). At 135 he looked as good as he ever did against Edwin Rosario. His fight against Ramirez was a little lacklustre but that happens when brothers in law fight.

At 140 I thought he lost a little sharpness, but he was still putting in consistently good performances from 89-93. He was much more patient in these years, not wasting energy unnecessarily. For instance if you look at the Lonnie Smith fight, he is more than content for Smith to prance around the ring for 2 and a half minutes and then he'd put on short bursts to seal the round and get the decision. A younger, hungrier Chavez might have tried to pulverize him instead of letting him give him the run around.

I think after the Whitaker fight he clearly lost something, certainly in motivation, maybe in belief too. His bubble burst, and I don't really think he cared all that much, given how long he had been fighting. He tried to milk the 'getting to 100 wins' angle, but he wasn't willing to get himself into the shape needed to fend of hungry fighters like Randall who were waiting for their chance to make it big.

So all in all, his prime would have been at lightweight, he lost a little speed and sharpness in moving to 140, but then exited his prime well and truly after his fight with Pete at welter.

Last edited by sweet_scientist; 11-20-2009 at 10:33 PM.
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Old 11-20-2009, 09:43 PM   #22
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Default Re: Who did you have winning, J L Ramirez vs Edwin Rosario

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I think he had some good early performances at 130 (Martinez, Mayweather) but then he started getting too big for the weight and started putting in some lacklustre performances after draining himself to make 130 (Laporte, Lockridge). At 135 he looked as good as he ever did against Edwin Rosario. His fight against Ramirez was a little lacklustre but that happens when brothers in law fight.

At 140 I thought he lost a little sharpness, but he was still putting in consistently good performances from 89-93. He was much more patient in these years, not wasting energy unnecessarily. For instance if you look at the Lonnie Smith fight, he is more than content for Smith to prance around the ring for 2 and a half minutes and then he'd put on short bursts to seal the round and get the decision. A younger, hungrier Chavez might have tried to pulverize him instead of letting him give him the run around.

I think after the Whitaker fight he clearly lost something, certainly in motivation, maybe in belief too. His bubble burst, and I don't really think he cared all that much, given how long he had been fighting. He tried to milk the 'getting to 100 wins' angle, but he wasn't willing to get himself into the shape needed to fend of hungry fighters like Randall who were waiting for their chance to make it big.

So all in all, his prime would have been at lightweight, he lost a little speed and sharpness in moving to 140, but then existed his prime well and truly after his fight with Pete at welter.

Speaking of [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] i thought he beat Azumah Nelson 1st fight, just my opinion.

I just like to add that i dont think his power was as good at 140 either.

Another informative and good read, thanks
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Old 11-20-2009, 10:14 PM   #23
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Default Re: Who did you have winning, J L Ramirez vs Edwin Rosario

I saw it back in 1983 on TV, but I didn't record that fight.... But, I recall Rosie started off good and then faded and took lumps down the stretch.... Rosie hurt his right hand too, I think.?.? Anyway, I suppose Eddie Rosie won after 12 rds but it was close......... The rematch of '84 was just.....

The '84 rematch is a classic and I own the tape / copy from my old machine....... A great fight on regular TV...... Ramirez roared back to kick some ass and win the title....... Epic......


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Old 11-20-2009, 10:40 PM   #24
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Default Re: Who did you have winning, J L Ramirez vs Edwin Rosario

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Speaking of [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] i thought he beat Azumah Nelson 1st fight, just my opinion.

I just like to add that i dont think his power was as good at 140 either.

Another informative and good read, thanks
He definitely has an argument for winning the first Nelson fight. I edged it for Nelson but I acknowledge there were some swing rounds in that one and I have no prob with anyone thinking Azabache nicked it.

You know if you look at Martinez's resume you won't think much of him, but this guy arguably beat Azumah Nelson, Roger Mayweather and even when he was an old man he came rather close to knocking Fenech out. He never won a title but he was swimming with sharks in those days.
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Old 11-21-2009, 12:39 AM   #25
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Default Re: Who did you have winning, J L Ramirez vs Edwin Rosario

Ramirez. When you engaged Ramirez, he could be dangerous. He beat Rosario twice, and the arguello fight was damn close. I have never been sure about what was up in the Mancini fight. But if you could run all night like Camacho or Whitaker in the first fight, then Ramirez didn't look so good. Whitaker fought a much better fight the next time around. Camacho's victory over Ramirez was very impressive.
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Old 11-21-2009, 12:42 AM   #26
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Default Re: Who did you have winning, J L Ramirez vs Edwin Rosario

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So at what point do you think Chavez started to slip?
I don't know if I would call it slipping, but Chavez was over his weight at 140 lbs. He could have ruled 135 for a very long time, and I wish he had stayed there since this is a real weight class. Chavez was getting somewhere past it after the Taylor fight. By Whitaker, Chavez wasn't the same fighter he had been. He was much slower.
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Old 11-21-2009, 11:10 AM   #27
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Default Re: Who did you have winning, J L Ramirez vs Edwin Rosario

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Ramirez. When you engaged Ramirez, he could be dangerous. He beat Rosario twice, and the arguello fight was damn close. I have never been sure about what was up in the Mancini fight. But if you could run all night like Camacho or Whitaker in the first fight, then Ramirez didn't look so good. Whitaker fought a much better fight the next time around. Camacho's victory over Ramirez was very impressive.
There was a point in the Rosario fight where Rosario backed him up momentarily and got on top of him, and for a moment he looked very uncomfortable but Rosario did not keep it going, Mancini seemed to do that the whole fight didn't he.

Maybe if you backed him up and overwhelmed him he was not the same fighter.
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Old 11-21-2009, 11:26 AM   #28
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Default Re: Who did you have winning, J L Ramirez vs Edwin Rosario

The correct scoring IMO is Ramirez by a point or a draw.
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Old 11-23-2009, 01:07 AM   #29
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Default Re: Who did you have winning, J L Ramirez vs Edwin Rosario

I'd also like to point out here, this was Ramirez at his peak, and I'd say possibly his best performance vs. a world class fighter despite not getting the decision. He looked a lot quicker and sharper here than he would years later around the time he fought Chavez and Whitaker.
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Old 11-23-2009, 02:57 PM   #30
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Default Re: Who did you have winning, J L Ramirez vs Edwin Rosario

What was the official scoring of Ramirez-Rosario I?
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