Who has best chance of beating prime Larry Holmes - Page 4

AnthonyJ74 · 11-18-2009, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by McGrain

Joe Frazier would outpoint him on the pressure I feel. Might be close though.

Apparently Holmes felt that Sonny would be a tough one for him, which it really might have been given Liston's jab/power combo. I'll go with him, too.

I agree with your pick of Frazier. I think a prime Frazier, the fast, perpetual ball of motion and aggression Frazier, would be a tough fight for Holmes. I don't think Holmes had Ali's natural toughness or durability, and I think Frazier's relentless attack and spartan conditioning would have allowed him to break Holmes down. I don't think it would have been so easy for Holmes to simply dance around, jab, and take a points win as many people probably think.

Tyson would have always been tough for Holmes, due to his speed, explosiveness, and short stature.

AnthonyJ74 · 11-18-2009, 01:04 PM

I think Riddick Bowe would give Holmes a great fight. His size, his jab, and his power. But, I think Holmes would be too fast and too sharp for Riddick. Riddick was bigger and stronger, but he was slower than Holmes, and he lacked Holmes' pizazz in terms of punching crispness. I can see Holmes eluding many more of Riddick's punches than Riddick could of Holmes' punches.

JohnThomas1 · 11-19-2009, 03:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Longhhorn71

Duane Bobick who knocked Holmes out.

Like Tyson - Tillman sorta thing

Quitali Bitchko · 11-19-2009, 05:31 AM

Tyson was being trained by Cus to beat Holmes as Cus thought by the time Tyson would fight for the title Holmes would still be the one to beat. Cus was always convinced Tyson would Holmes any day of the week, and theres an interview with Mike where he says he knew all the right stuff to beat Holmes even at age 15 but he didnt have the confidence back then. Imo, Tysons quickness and eye for openings would have caught Holmes 10 times out of 10 at one point during the fight. In fact, the Tyson that fought Holmes would beat a prime Holmes even faster, beacuse Holmes would open up and do his thing from round 1, not round 4. Tyson KO2 Holmes.

johnmaff36 · 11-23-2009, 06:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bodhi

Not many that´s for sure!

The great swarmers at their best, meaning Marciano and Frazier. Guys with similar good jabs but more power, meaning Lewis and Liston.
Tyson´s style was made to fight guys with Holmes´ style so I suppose he too would stand good chances. And when Tyson can do it, I think Dempsey could do it too.
Wlad could trouble him a bit I think but if he can beat him? I don´t know. Possible.

So, seven fighters at best - no I don´t think Louis or Ali would beat him, both stand a chance of course.

I know everyones got their opinion but how can you think marciano could beat Holmes and Ali couldnt? i know what your getting at with styles and shit and have my own opinion on it, but the Ali of late 66 is a different kettle off fish. Nobody, and i mean nobody, would have beaten that man at that time. He was just too good imo

johnmaff36 · 11-23-2009, 07:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rock0052

I was trying to come up with a top 10 for this, but I've only come up with 9 I feel would have at least a decent to good shot at pulling off the deed. In no particular order: Tyson, Ali, Lewis, Dempsey, Frazier, the Klitschkos, Norton, and Louis stand the best chances in my opinion.

The klitschkos?? Maybe, just maybe, vitali would give him a scrap, but wladimir? sure hes been KO'd by journeymen who shouldnt be mentioned in the same sentence as holmes. That big speedy right hand would have wladimirs wide-open jaw lying in the cheapseats

Stevie G · 11-23-2009, 07:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnmaff36

I know everyones got their opinion but how can you think marciano could beat Holmes and Ali couldnt? i know what your getting at with styles and shit and have my own opinion on it, but the Ali of late 66 is a different kettle off fish. Nobody, and i mean nobody, would have beaten that man at that time. He was just too good imo

I agree. Ali,at that time would have been virtually untouchable.

JIm Broughton · 11-23-2009, 09:16 AM

If I had to bet my life savings on the one fighter to beat a peak Holmes it would have to be a peak Ali. All the other fighters mentioned so far certainly COULD beat Holmes but I'd still go with Ali in a chess match/street fight. Thier skillsets are very close. So close in fact that both men may have to engage in a little brawling at times in an attemot to "outmacho" the other and gain something of a psychological edge and I see Ali benefiting most from this. Could go either way though. Of the smaller swarmer type fighters ala Marciano/Frazier/Tyson/Dempsey etc.. I think a prime Frazier has the best chance. Tyson certainly has the speed and power but would get discouraged if he doesn't ko Holmes early. Marciano has the power but not the speed or the reach to consistently land enough. Dempsey seems to have trouble against clever boxers and Hlomes was as clever and bigger and faster than any boxer Jack ever faced. It's either ko Larry early or get outclassed. So once again my pick is Ali. It would be a helluva fight though don't you think?

The Morlocks · 11-23-2009, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stevie G

A similar thread was done on Ali a little while ago. Let's go with Mr.Holmes. Ones that I figure have the best chance are. The 1964-67 and 1972-74 versions of Muhammad Ali,FOTC Joe Frazier,Joe Louis and Rocky Marciano. George Foreman would always have a puncher's chance. Although I'd make Holmes favourite,I calculate that if Foreman caught him with a right the way Shavers did,George would n't let him off the hook. I can't discount Tyson here either,but I'd still make Larry the favourite. The only other one I'd give a fair to middling chance to is Lennox Lewis.

Father Time, the almost undefeated undisputed heacyweight champ. Only Marciano beat him. and that says a LOT about the Rock.

gooners!! · 11-23-2009, 12:48 PM

I would say the guy who beats Holmes is a guy that can dictate the tempo of the fight, Holmes liked to fight at his own pace and dictate the pace but when someone got on top of him or forced him to fight like Snipes, Shavers 2 he was not as comfortable, although he did come up with the goods in those fights when all said and done, Weaver 2 also.

I cant say enough about the heart of Larry Holmes though, if you were going to beat him you better be willing to take the title from him because he fought tooth and nail to keep hold of his title, as he showed against Williams, Weaver, Shavers, Snipes

I think he was robbed in the second Spinks fight by the way, thought he did! lose the first but not the second.

Mendoza · 11-23-2009, 07:20 PM

If you asking me who's Holmes toughest fight at his best, I'd say Lennox Lewis.

The Ali fans might go crazy, but Holmes had a better jab, and threw more punches with better variety.

Seamus · 11-23-2009, 07:33 PM

Prime Tyson.

gooners!! · 11-23-2009, 07:41 PM

One thing you could say about a potential fight between Holmes and Lewis, triangle theory that is probably irrelevant but look at the trouble Mercer gave Lewis, look what an old Larry did to Ray Mercer earlier in Mercer's career.

11-18-2009, 01:04 PM	#47
AnthonyJ74 Contender ESB Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 1,377 vCash: 1000	Re: Who has best chance of beating prime Larry Holmes I think Riddick Bowe would give Holmes a great fight. His size, his jab, and his power. But, I think Holmes would be too fast and too sharp for Riddick. Riddick was bigger and stronger, but he was slower than Holmes, and he lacked Holmes' pizazz in terms of punching crispness. I can see Holmes eluding many more of Riddick's punches than Riddick could of Holmes' punches.
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11-19-2009, 05:31 AM	#49
Quitali Bitchko The Punisher ESB Jr Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: New York Posts: 238 vCash: 75	Re: Who has best chance of beating prime Larry Holmes Tyson was being trained by Cus to beat Holmes as Cus thought by the time Tyson would fight for the title Holmes would still be the one to beat. Cus was always convinced Tyson would Holmes any day of the week, and theres an interview with Mike where he says he knew all the right stuff to beat Holmes even at age 15 but he didnt have the confidence back then. Imo, Tysons quickness and eye for openings would have caught Holmes 10 times out of 10 at one point during the fight. In fact, the Tyson that fought Holmes would beat a prime Holmes even faster, beacuse Holmes would open up and do his thing from round 1, not round 4. Tyson KO2 Holmes.
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11-23-2009, 09:16 AM	#53
JIm Broughton Gatekeeper ESB Full Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 386 vCash: 1000	Re: Who has best chance of beating prime Larry Holmes If I had to bet my life savings on the one fighter to beat a peak Holmes it would have to be a peak Ali. All the other fighters mentioned so far certainly COULD beat Holmes but I'd still go with Ali in a chess match/street fight. Thier skillsets are very close. So close in fact that both men may have to engage in a little brawling at times in an attemot to "outmacho" the other and gain something of a psychological edge and I see Ali benefiting most from this. Could go either way though. Of the smaller swarmer type fighters ala Marciano/Frazier/Tyson/Dempsey etc.. I think a prime Frazier has the best chance. Tyson certainly has the speed and power but would get discouraged if he doesn't ko Holmes early. Marciano has the power but not the speed or the reach to consistently land enough. Dempsey seems to have trouble against clever boxers and Hlomes was as clever and bigger and faster than any boxer Jack ever faced. It's either ko Larry early or get outclassed. So once again my pick is Ali. It would be a helluva fight though don't you think?
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11-23-2009, 12:48 PM	#55
gooners!! Champion East Side Guru Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: England Posts: 5,083 vCash: 1000	Re: Who has best chance of beating prime Larry Holmes I would say the guy who beats Holmes is a guy that can dictate the tempo of the fight, Holmes liked to fight at his own pace and dictate the pace but when someone got on top of him or forced him to fight like Snipes, Shavers 2 he was not as comfortable, although he did come up with the goods in those fights when all said and done, Weaver 2 also. I cant say enough about the heart of Larry Holmes though, if you were going to beat him you better be willing to take the title from him because he fought tooth and nail to keep hold of his title, as he showed against Williams, Weaver, Shavers, Snipes I think he was robbed in the second Spinks fight by the way, thought he did! lose the first but not the second.
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11-23-2009, 07:20 PM	#56
Mendoza Dominating a decade East Side VIP Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 12,782 vCash: 1000	Re: Who has best chance of beating prime Larry Holmes If you asking me who's Holmes toughest fight at his best, I'd say Lennox Lewis. The Ali fans might go crazy, but Holmes had a better jab, and threw more punches with better variety.
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11-23-2009, 07:33 PM	#57
Seamus Undisputed Champion East Side VIP Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Lisboa, Portugal Posts: 10,118 vCash: 1000	Re: Who has best chance of beating prime Larry Holmes Prime Tyson.
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11-23-2009, 07:41 PM	#58
gooners!! Champion East Side Guru Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: England Posts: 5,083 vCash: 1000	Re: Who has best chance of beating prime Larry Holmes One thing you could say about a potential fight between Holmes and Lewis, triangle theory that is probably irrelevant but look at the trouble Mercer gave Lewis, look what an old Larry did to Ray Mercer earlier in Mercer's career.
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