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Old 11-24-2009, 02:32 PM   #1
IntentionalButt
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Default VBookies, report here (MASTER LIST WITHIN)

Welcome.

In the interest of uniformity and order, here's a little bootcamp/tutorial on best practices (this is based on experience, not guesswork - if you have better ideas please share and discuss them).

We can also use this thread for the "Master List". If we all decide to adopt this practice we'll be tacitly agreeing that EVERY BOOKIE WILL CHECK THE MASTER LIST PRIOR TO PUBLISHING AN EVENT.

Down to biz.

1) Publishing an event.
OK, so let's say you've decided you want to lay up some juicy odds for Tyson vs Holyfield III. Grand. Your first stop should be this thread to check the master list. If Tyson-Holyfield doesn't appear, or appears but doesn't have the name of another bookie next to it (like so
Mike Tyson vs. Evander Holyfield - rubbermatch (IntentionalButt)
... then you're good to go.

Your next stop should be whatever your source or sources for betting odds may be. Seasoned vbookies will have "preferred" sites but also play the field, new ones are always popping up. Check on Google frequently but definitely have a set of "standby" sources, brush up on reviews from the actual bettors who spend their hard-earned (real) money there unless it's just a "for entertainment purposes" only site. It's okay to use multiple sites as reference for one event. There is typically some degree of fluctuation from one site to the next, and certainly as the time until a fight lessens (things like training camp reports, management issues, and of course the weigh-in can affect final odds by fight night eve).
For instance, betmaster.bates might have Tyson a 3/1 underdog, and betyour.ass might have him 18/5. Go with whichever you like - YOU are the bookmaker here. You can even take a "compromise" in between the two (ie 7/2) or round one slightly up/down if it makes a smaller, prettier integer (vbookie always deals in Fraction - or "British" odds - remember that simplicity and nice small manageable numbers are pleasing to the bettors' eyes.).

Speaking of different odds types - your reference source may or may not have odds in Fractional/British format. They may have it in European/Decimal, or American/Moneyline. They may have a combination of two, or all three. In any case, as a vbookie you should have a betting odds converter bookmarked in your web browser. This one's fine: [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] - couldn't be any easier to use.

Now, you've checked the Master List (and added your name to a blank event, or created the event and added your name) and you've obtained/fabricated your odds and convered if necessary. So post a thread (you should know how to do this ), and select the "Yes, post a vBookie Event with this thread" box which you as a Vbookie have available to you at the bottom of the page above the "Submit New Thread" button. You will need to update the # of bet options (same as adding a poll), fill in the name/action/odd fields, put "Boxing" as the event group unless it isn't boxing, and then comes the tricky part...the date & time issue.

You should select the date of the event as the cut-off for bets, as early in the day as possible while still giving people time for last-minute bets. ESB goes by GMT, so ALL ODDS NEED TO BE SET TO GMT; BE CAREFUL TO ADJUST YOUR CUTOFF AND PAYOUT TIMES ACCORDINGLY. Your payout should be a few hours after the cutoff time so that people aren't expecting their vcash as soon as Michael Buffer reads the scorecarsd - set an expectation for them.

Do the homework of figuring out where the fight is located geographically. If it's in the United States, cutting off bets at GMT midnight on January 24th 2010 means you are actually cutting off bets at 7pm EST on January 23rd, 2010. Please re-read this sentence if you don't understand it, or ask for clarification. This part is important. If Luevano vs. Lopez is in New York, US - that's the EST timezone, GMT-5. So you can actually set the "accept bets until date" as midnight the day after the event, as this will cut off bets at 7pm EST (a few hours before the main event), which is perfect. Anybody whining about wanting to place a bet an hour before the ringwalks can blow it out their ass. They'll have had all day and the previous night (if they're the "wait for the weigh-in" type) and presumably days and even weeks prior to that to get their bets in.

As far as how you structure your events - that's your business. For consistency's sake, it may help limit confusion for bettors if we all adopt a common style for "big fights" - or just in general. My preferred format is 4 bet options per event:
Fighter A Odds/Odds
Fighter B Odds/Odds
Over x.x rounds Odds/Odds
Under x.x rounds Odds/Odds

All in favor say aye. This is pretty much the standard format in which odds will be listed at most (though certainly not all) online sportsbooks.

2) Managing an event.
No "mulligans" or "do-overs". If you post an event, you're responsible for keeping it up until action is completed and paying out in a timely manner. As stated above, odds do fluctuate for various reasons as time passes. If you're making a thread two months in advance, be aware that odds may change. Once you make an event, for our purposes here, those odds are "locked in". There's no point cluttering the forum with multiple threads because you changed your mind (or different developments came up). Sink or swim, we go with the first one. So if you think it might not be a good idea to post it so far in advance, well DURRRR, don't post it yet.

An event abandonment would obviously be appropriate if a fight is cancelled or postponed (trying to keep the event open until a new venue/date is established and then just fussing with the dates is a logistical nightmare...just scrap it and either you or another bookie can re-make the thread when the fight is re-finalized.)

People want their cash and they want it fast. Be stern, set pay-out times that are a few hours after big fights. You're human too, and you'll want to have a few drinks to celebrate Pacman being the first to KO Money May. If the final stunning blow comes at 11:45pm, you don't want hordes of angry posters demaning their vcash at 12:05am. Set the payout for like 2 or 3. If people won, they know the vcash will be waiting for them in the morning. If they're still up that late, then great they get to see their vwallets magically fatten up.

IF for some reason you anticipate not being able to settle an event in a timely manner the night/early following morning of an event, please PM another bookie requesting that they keep an eye for you.

That's all I got for now.
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Old 11-24-2009, 02:44 PM   #2
IntentionalButt
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Default Re: VBookies, report here (MASTER LIST WITHIN)

Here, we'll break the ice on the rolling Master List.

These are big fights that will inevitably have events made on them. People can call dibs on creation of an event by simply putting their username in parentheses next to the event name. If you want to add a "smaller"/more obscure event, simply add it and obviously put your name next to it.

If you're the first to post after an event's over, just delete that line so we can keep the list nice and trim and current.

11/27 ANTHONY SMALL VS. THOMAS MCDONOUGH (HEALY)
11/28 LUCIAN BUTE VS. LIBRADO ANDRADE - REMATCH (HEALY)
11/28 ALI FUNEKA VS. JOAN GUZMAN
11/28 JOHN MOLINA VS. MARTIN HONORIO
11/29 DAISUKE NAITO VS. KOKI KAMEDA
12/2 BERNARD HOPKINS VS. ENRIQUE ORNELAS
12/2 ROY JONES VS. DANNY GREEN (INTENTIONALBUTT)
12/5 AMIR KHAN VS. DIMITRIY SALITA (HEALY)
12/5 PAUL WILLIAMS VS. SERGIO MARTINEZ
12/11 JEAN PASCAL VS. ADRIAN DIACONU - REMATCH
12/11 WINKY WRIGHT VS. GRADY BREWER
12/12 VITALI KLITSCHKO VS. KEVIN JOHNSON
12/12 JUAN DIAZ VS. PAUL MALIGNAGGI - REMATCH
12/12 VICTOR ORTIZ VS. ANTONIO DIAZ
12/12 TIMOTHY BRADLEY VS. LAMONT PETERSON
12/19 KELLY PAVLIK VS. MIGUEL ESPINO

Let's cap it off at a month out, eh?
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Old 11-24-2009, 02:46 PM   #3
Healy
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Default Re: VBookies, report here (MASTER LIST WITHIN)

Thats a great basic tutorial yes. The idea of the master list is good, keeps us from stepping on each others feet. Obviously there will be fights in the UK that the lads in the US may not know of, ie-Barker v El**** this weekend and vice versa.


About the betting options :

I think the option 'X by KO/TKO' or 'Y by Decision' is appealing the average poster who posts on ESB. Everyone is always talking about how 'Jimmy J will get knocked out by Billy B' and its a chance for those who accurately predict fights to make the big vCash.

You could add in the Under/Over option also...that would be no hassler

Thats my opinion anyways and its more interesting i think..


TYSON V ALI are fighting
I propose these options.

* Tyson
* Ali
* Draw

* Tyson by decision
* Tyson by KO/TKO
* Ali by decision
* Ali by KO/TKO

* Under
* Over

Thats only 9 options.....its not hard work for most fights, ok if its a small fight you wouldnt have to include all of them.

But i think the attitude on here is that people loves to be right and with options like Over 7.5 / by KO / by decision...we are giving the punter many different methods to win and lose.

It will make for interesting reading in the cash table in regards of who leads it!
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Old 11-24-2009, 02:49 PM   #4
IntentionalButt
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Default Re: VBookies, report here (MASTER LIST WITHIN)

The problem with that, Healy, is that while it's interesting, those detailed odds are not always available. The four-option odds are virtually universal, you'll find them on every big fight (and even more obscure fights that have odds listed...or sometimes, very rarely it'll just be listed as a two-option format with the winner's names but not the over/under).

If more online sports books had all those detailed bet options I'd be for it. But for consistency, since it's highly unlikely we'll find such detailed odds available for the majority of fights, it seems more prudent to me to keep it simple with the four-option system (which is always available, and ultimately includes any picks someone may make; ie rather than bet "Pavlik by KO in the tenth" they can split up their cash, some on Pavlik to win and some on the under 11.5).
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Old 11-24-2009, 02:51 PM   #5
Healy
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Default Re: VBookies, report here (MASTER LIST WITHIN)

Also, for the 'getting odds' of the fights issue

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ] is a GREAT site.

If you clicl on the red icon that says 'View Odds' beside the listed fight that it gives a spread of over 15 recognised bookmakers that (view below)

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]


To get other odds on the fight you click on 'view all betting markets' and more options pop up

Il chose the mean or average roughly...if sites are split between 5/1, 11/2 and 6/1 i would go with the 11/2 option.

Thats what i will be running with anyways in terms of getting the odds.
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Old 11-24-2009, 02:56 PM   #6
IntentionalButt
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Default Re: VBookies, report here (MASTER LIST WITHIN)

oddschecker is a great one, Healy - definitely poke around as there are plenty of other good resources as well. Sometimes one place (say PinnacleSports) will have action on something you'd think oddschecker should have but doesn't - and vice versa. It's good to have plenty of cushion to fall back on.

And yeah some approximation of the mean or average from different sites (using your own judgment) is the best way to go, I've found.
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Old 11-24-2009, 02:57 PM   #7
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Default Re: VBookies, report here (MASTER LIST WITHIN)

Quote:
Originally Posted by IntentionalButt View Post
The problem with that, Healy, is that while it's interesting, those detailed odds are not always available. The four-option odds are virtually universal, you'll find them on every big fight (and even more obscure fights that have odds listed...or sometimes, very rarely it'll just be listed as a two-option format with the winner's names but not the over/under).

If more online sports books had all those detailed bet options I'd be for it. But for consistency, since it's highly unlikely we'll find such detailed odds available for the majority of fights, it seems more prudent to me to keep it simple with the four-option system (which is always available, and ultimately includes any picks someone may make; ie rather than bet "Pavlik by KO in the tenth" they can split up their cash, some on Pavlik to win and some on the under 11.5).
Ok, well oddschecker.com generally offer a wide range of prices. At least 2-3 bookmakers in the boxing section offer the 'Method of Victory' option on decent sized fights

If its a domestic fight im more than happy going with the 4-5 options (Fight A, Fighter B, Draw?, Under and Over) but for big fights id like to see us use Oddschecker because the options are great.

Like the more varity, for big fights, the more interesting it will be to see where the cash is going. On the smaller fights, maybe not so much
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Old 11-24-2009, 03:00 PM   #8
IntentionalButt
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Default Re: VBookies, report here (MASTER LIST WITHIN)

Oh you're right, totally slipped my mind - we should offer draw action too. It's still more common than the more detailed breakdown (ie "Fighter A by x-round KO" or "Fighter B by decision") but it's not quite as common as the four-option system. Definitely something that's fun to include when available, as draw lines are always juicy (the floor is like 20/1 - and that's for pick'em fights expected to go long )

If you want to include a full array of options on your events, power to you, but I would just advise against falling in love with a single site and getting disappointed when suddenly you can't find detailed odds on a particular fight or fights.
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Old 11-24-2009, 03:01 PM   #9
Healy
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Default Re: VBookies, report here (MASTER LIST WITHIN)

Quote:
Originally Posted by IntentionalButt View Post
Here, we'll break the ice on the rolling Master List.

These are big fights that will inevitably have events made on them. People can call dibs on creation of an event by simply putting their username in parentheses next to the event name. If you want to add a "smaller"/more obscure event, simply add it and obviously put your name next to it.

If you're the first to post after an event's over, just delete that line so we can keep the list nice and trim and current.

11/27 ANTHONY SMALL VS. THOMAS MCDONOUGH (HEALY)
11/28 LUCIAN BUTE VS. LIBRADO ANDRADE - REMATCH (HEALY)
11/28 ALI FUNEKA VS. JOAN GUZMAN
11/28 JOHN MOLINA VS. MARTIN HONORIO
11/29 DAISUKE NAITO VS. KOKI KAMEDA
12/2 BERNARD HOPKINS VS. ENRIQUE ORNELAS
12/2 ROY JONES VS. DANNY GREEN (INTENTIONALBUTT)
12/5 AMIR KHAN VS. DIMITRIY SALITA (HEALY)
12/5 PAUL WILLIAMS VS. SERGIO MARTINEZ
12/11 JEAN PASCAL VS. ADRIAN DIACONU - REMATCH
12/11 WINKY WRIGHT VS. GRADY BREWER
12/12 VITALI KLITSCHKO VS. KEVIN JOHNSON
12/12 JUAN DIAZ VS. PAUL MALIGNAGGI - REMATCH
12/12 VICTOR ORTIZ VS. ANTONIO DIAZ
12/12 TIMOTHY BRADLEY VS. LAMONT PETERSON
12/19 KELLY PAVLIK VS. MIGUEL ESPINO

Let's cap it off at a month out, eh?
Sorry i overstepped the mark, but anyways..i think the threads i made a good

Id like to take the Diaz v Malignaggi fight anyways and ye can split the rest however.. (il offer Paulie by decision in that one ya see)
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Old 11-24-2009, 03:02 PM   #10
IntentionalButt
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Default Re: VBookies, report here (MASTER LIST WITHIN)

Not a problem.

Just yeah, maybe lay off for a bit now and give others a chance to get their feet wet (feel free to snag Diaz/Malignaggi II, though).
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Old 11-24-2009, 03:03 PM   #11
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Default Re: VBookies, report here (MASTER LIST WITHIN)

non boxing betting should consist of the the odds and the over/under point spreads

now one issue....Patriots were -1.20 and the saints even....who do you get that to reflect the odds?
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Old 11-24-2009, 03:04 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxing Girl View Post
non boxing betting should consist of the the odds and the over/under point spreads

now one issue....Patriots were -1.20 and the saints even....who do you get that to reflect the odds?
I never messed around much with other sports, Jenna - so my knowledge of those odds is slim.

Even money is listed as 1/1 using the British/Fraction system. If you plug -1.20 into this handy-dandy converter it comes out with moneyline -220, or 5/11

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
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Old 11-24-2009, 03:07 PM   #13
Healy
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Default Re: VBookies, report here (MASTER LIST WITHIN)

Quote:
Originally Posted by IntentionalButt View Post
Oh you're right, totally slipped my mind - we should offer draw action too. It's still more common than the more detailed breakdown (ie "Fighter A by x-round KO" or "Fighter B by decision") but it's not quite as common as the four-option system. Definitely something that's fun to include when available, as draw lines are always juicy (the floor is like 20/1 - and that's for pick'em fights expected to go long )

If you want to include a full array of options on your events, power to you, but I would just advise against falling in love with a single site and getting disappointed when suddenly you can't find detailed odds on a particular fight or fights.
Draws are unlikely to happen but you will get the odd person betting on them

Ya i wont get too bogged up in it, oddschecker is my bible to be honest, it already has odds up for Malignaggi by decison at 13/8. Thats a much better bet that a straight Malignaggi win at 1/1. Thats just my point and if i can find them options which i usually can on oddschecker il add them.. The bigger fights are usually easy to find.

There may be smaller fights with only 3 or 5 options as i said.
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Old 11-24-2009, 03:23 PM   #14
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Default Re: VBookies, report here (MASTER LIST WITHIN)

Quote:
Originally Posted by IntentionalButt View Post
I never messed around much with other sports, Jenna - so my knowledge of those odds is slim.

Even money is listed as 1/1 using the British/Fraction system. If you plug -1.20 into this handy-dandy converter it comes out with moneyline -220, or 5/11

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

Cheers

Don't forget to get you're bets in on this one IB
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Old 11-24-2009, 03:25 PM   #15
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Default Re: VBookies, report here (MASTER LIST WITHIN)

You've missed Alexeev/Drozd, this might interest a few people as the odds are okay.
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