Ruben" Hurican "Carter VS Jimmy Ellis KD in rd 4

[Bummy Davis]

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Jimmy Ellis as a middleweight, gave a good acount of himself but the middleweight division was a bit rougher for Jimmy than the Heavys until he ran into Frazier

[PetethePrince]

Yes, possibly tells a bit of how sometimes the second tier fighters of the late 60's/early 70's get overrated in the HW division.

[Longhhorn71]

Originally Posted by PetethePrince

Yes, possibly tells a bit of how sometimes the second tier fighters of the late 60's/early 70's get overrated in the HW division.

He lost to Carter, Don Fullmer, and Georgie Benton in 3 of 4 fights, then moved up to lightheavy / heavy and never lost again until Frazier.

[PetethePrince]

Originally Posted by Longhhorn71

He lost to Carter, Don Fullmer, and Georgie Benton in 3 of 4 fights, then moved up to lightheavy / heavy and never lost again until Frazier.

Yep

[abraq]

Originally Posted by PetethePrince

Yes, possibly tells a bit of how sometimes the second tier fighters of the late 60's/early 70's get overrated in the HW division.

Yes, possibly. But it could also be that Jimmy matured, improved and came into his own as a HW.

[My2Sense]

The story of Ellis is that he appealed to Angelo Dundee for help after this fight, and Dundee took over every aspect of his training and life. He had Ellis' tonsils removed and after that Ellis quickly gained weight. His shocking 1st round KO of hot prospect Johnny Persol put him into the limelight and earned him entry into the WBA's HW elimination tournament. Ellis was the biggest underdog of all coming into that tourney, and was the underdog in every match he fought in. Later, when Ellis fought Ali, Dundee chose to work in Ellis' corner.

[Vantage_West]

proof of

1) hieght in smaller division isnt always an advantage
2) dundee was more than a cheerleader

[Unforgiven]

It was only Ellis' 17th pro fight. He was 14-2 against good opposition.
Carter was 18-4, and had just KO'd Emile Griffith in 1 round !

I dont think this fight says anything about Ellis later on, or the heavyweights of the 1960s. Ellis improved after another 9 or 10 fights, and when he moved up from the middleweights.

[Unforgiven]

It's impressive how Ellis bulked up. He was already 24 years old when he fought Carter, and he weighed 156. This is Ellis 45 pounds heavier and he doesn't look grossly overweight :

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[ocelot]

Ellis is a very underrated HW. He boxed brilliantly against Frazier, and a fighter other than Frazier wouldn't have been able to take it and return fire. He just had the misfortune of fighting Joe, one of the best ever .

[PowerPuncher]

I think Ellis is horribly underrated, yes before he was with Dundee when he was learning his trade he was a gatekeeper MW, but he managed to work on his skills, go up in weight and become a world heavyweight champion beating Patterson, Bonavena, MArtin and Quarry. Thats quite some run before he ran into Frazier

[johnmaff36]

Dundee always claimed Ellis was one of the best first round bangers he'd ever seen. Im not entirely sure what exactly he meant by that particular chice of phrase but thats what he said