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View Poll Results: Rocky or Floyd
Marciano, by KO/TKO 34 79.07%
Marciano, on pts 0 0%
Patterson, by KO/TKO 6 13.95%
Patterson, on pts 3 6.98%
Voters: 43. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 10-02-2007, 10:27 PM   #31
OLD FOGEY
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Default Re: Rocky Marciano -vs- Floyd Patterson

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Originally Posted by mcvey
Simon on film looks pretty pathetic ,clumsy,slow a pawing jab,and devoid of real power,he could take it thats about it.I think Patterson would cream him.
Have you seen a film of him other than getting pounded by Louis? He was obviously slow and clumsy, but I would like to see how he fought before he was knocked down several times and beaten to a pulp by the best puncher of the day. Simon's first fight with Louis was close enough that if Simon had swept the 13th through the 15th rounds, he could have gotten a fifteen round draw. (The fight was scheduled for 20) He must have had something on the ball.

My main point is that Patterson's performances regressed as the opponents got bigger, in distinction to Dempsey, Louis, and Marciano, all of whom performed very well against their bigger opponents.

Last edited by OLD FOGEY; 10-02-2007 at 10:48 PM.
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Old 10-02-2007, 11:09 PM   #32
Marciano Frazier
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Default Re: Rocky Marciano -vs- Floyd Patterson

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Originally Posted by Holmes' Jab
Patterson was very fast in his prime, had great handspeed, footwork and very good skills to go with that speed as well as guile and agility.

I don't think Marciano would intimidate Patterson like Liston did and (unlike Liston) he'd actually be the smaller guy here. Patterson was hard to hit and fought very well out of his crouch like technique, he could launch quick n' snappy combination flurries from a wide variety of angles. If he choose to brawl against Rocky he'd be making a mistake but I think he could get to the inside, bang at Rocky's body and head and then out of range again without being on the receiving end of too much acumulative punishment.

In addition having a top-notch jab (and skills) such as Liston's would be a great/useful tool to have, in order to offset/negate Patterson's speed, rythmn and put him on the backfoot and off balance. Marciano's jab* isn't on that level and I think he'd find it a nightmare to catch up with Floyd, stylistically speaking,

I wouldn't be laying any money down (a puncher with Rocky's power can end a fight with a few well placed shots at any time) and I understand I'll take a lot of flack for this, but I think Patterson might just be able to squeak a narrow victory on the cards over a 12 rounder.



*Not to mention that he barely ever threw that shot.
Patterson was fast with good technique, but he was a straight-ahead, inside pressure fighter, not a stick-and-mover. You'll find this in absolutely all of his big fights from Moore to Johansson to Liston to Ali. Now, he had a good peek-a-boo style defense, but it was far from impregnable- note that he was dropped on a regular basis even during his prime and even against mediocre guys like pro-debuter Pete Rademacher and Roy Harris- and his chin was far below-average for a heavyweight champion. Literally all it would take from a peak Marciano would be one big bomb, and that's against a guy with a somewhat flawed defense who would be coming to him all night. I don't think you're being too realistic in suggesting that it's probable Patterson could avoid this for an entire 12 rounds with Marciano. Now, I'm uncertain whether it would be an early blow-out or a hard-fought battle into the middle or even late rounds, but I'm pretty confident Marciano would take Patterson out.

Last edited by Slothrop; 07-15-2006 at 07:59 PM.
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Old 10-02-2007, 11:15 PM   #33
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Default Re: Rocky Marciano -vs- Floyd Patterson

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Originally Posted by PowerPuncher
Thats speculative, every man has a defeat after a loss, Walcotts bodyweight didnt fluctuate very much for a supposed 'starved' man. He also fought twice in the 2 months prior so he had money coming in from those fights to buy food
Look, it's just plain not reasonably debatable that Walcott wasn't in his prime when he fought Simon. At that point in his career, Walcott was not even in the top 10. Not even close to the top 10, in fact. The Walcott of 10 years later was a perennial #1 contender and eventually champion. He was absolutely not even close to as good a fighter as he later became when he fought Simon.
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Old 10-03-2007, 12:52 AM   #34
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Default Re: Rocky Marciano -vs- Floyd Patterson

Rocky once said something to this effect: "If I told you I could beat Patterson you'd think I was bragging; If I told you I couldn't, I'd be lying"

Pretty much sums up the mindset he always possessed.

Rocky by a KO in 9 or 10.
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Old 10-03-2007, 06:22 AM   #35
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Default Re: Rocky Marciano -vs- Floyd Patterson

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Originally Posted by OLD FOGEY
Have you seen a film of him other than getting pounded by Louis? He was obviously slow and clumsy, but I would like to see how he fought before he was knocked down several times and beaten to a pulp by the best puncher of the day. Simon's first fight with Louis was close enough that if Simon had swept the 13th through the 15th rounds, he could have gotten a fifteen round draw. (The fight was scheduled for 20) He must have had something on the ball.

My main point is that Patterson's performances regressed as the opponents got bigger, in distinction to Dempsey, Louis, and Marciano, all of whom performed very well against their bigger opponents.
Marciano didnt really beat many bigger men did he?Louis had seriously declined when he met Rocky.and relied on his jab to fend Marciano off,he hardly threw his right,,but tokk a passive role ,no way a prime Louis wouldnt have been going forward against Marciano.Dempsey andLouis feasted on the bigger men ,but Pattersions punch and bodily strength wasnt near their class.I have seen a bit of Simon on film before he met Louis,cant remember who against,he looked much the same as I recall a bit more bounce in his step perhaps ,but essentially still a plodder,prime for prime Walcott would have beaten Abe no problem.
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Old 10-03-2007, 07:44 AM   #36
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Default Re: Rocky Marciano -vs- Floyd Patterson

Patterson came at you. He was a tremendous puncher and contrary to popular opinion, had a decent chin. He was always in top shape.

However, Rocky was extremely durable and punched like a mule.

I see Floyd ahead on the score cards but somewhere along the way, Rocky catches him with a shot and TKO's Floyd.

Rocky was a lot more cagey in the ring than he is given credit for. He had the ability to figure you out and time his shots. He was more than just a bull strong guy.
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Old 10-03-2007, 01:11 PM   #37
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Default Re: Rocky Marciano -vs- Floyd Patterson

Patterson always gets a bad rap for his chin. Yes, he was knocked down a lot, but most of the time he GOT UP and got around to finishing business. I think Floyd demonstrated some incredible durability in taking all those knockdowns through his career and still managing to win most of the time.
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Old 10-05-2007, 12:53 PM   #38
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Default Re: Rocky Marciano -vs- Floyd Patterson

As the resident Floyd nut-hugger I'll admit my bias, but I hear this "one shot from this guy or that guy and Floyd would be out like a light" He NEVER went out like a light!
1) a Sunday bomb from Ingo would hurt ANYONE and put most away.
2) Liston couldn't recall ever hitting anyone any harder than he hit
Floyd.
And yet Floyd rose on those occasions or was rising. Lennox Lewis got smoked into dreamland twice worse than Patterson EVER did.

Virtually ALL the Patterson knockdowns were of the flash variety or his being off balance with his lunging style. Let's look:
>that Frenchman as a teenager/Rademacher/Harris/McNeeley?/3 of the 4 Quarry KD's (that one right in the first fight was a Sunday shot that really hurt Floyd and he proceeded to get to his feet and smoke Jerry's arse!) Who else? Ali/Bonavena (questionable). Did ANY of these shots even hurt Patterson to ANY degree? I saw him after many of the above drops with a bemused embarrassed smile on his face.

IMHO NO ONE knocks Patterson OUT! The Rock may have forced stoppage of an early Floyd but that would be it; this IS a legitimate and interesting thread.
55-8-1 with four losses to Ali/Liston.
That leaves 55-4-1 with many, many, people out there feeling he won three of those losses and won the draw.

Outside of a prime Foreman/Frazier I'd really have liked to see ol' Patterson mixing with some of the 70's boys in prime:
Norton/Lyle/Shavers etc...you think these guys walk right thru him?
Better think again IMHO...
Hall o' Fame ALL THE WAY FOLKS.
my $0.02
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Old 10-05-2007, 04:52 PM   #39
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Default Re: Rocky Marciano -vs- Floyd Patterson

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Originally Posted by jowcol
As the resident Floyd nut-hugger I'll admit my bias, but I hear this "one shot from this guy or that guy and Floyd would be out like a light" He NEVER went out like a light!
I haven't really seen anyone say that in this thread.

Quote:
1) a Sunday bomb from Ingo would hurt ANYONE and put most away.
2) Liston couldn't recall ever hitting anyone any harder than he hit
Floyd.
And yet Floyd rose on those occasions or was rising. Lennox Lewis got smoked into dreamland twice worse than Patterson EVER did.

Virtually ALL the Patterson knockdowns were of the flash variety or his being off balance with his lunging style. Let's look:
>that Frenchman as a teenager/Rademacher/Harris/McNeeley?/3 of the 4 Quarry KD's (that one right in the first fight was a Sunday shot that really hurt Floyd and he proceeded to get to his feet and smoke Jerry's arse!) Who else? Ali/Bonavena (questionable). Did ANY of these shots even hurt Patterson to ANY degree? I saw him after many of the above drops with a bemused embarrassed smile on his face.
The Ali knockdown was not questionable/"not-hurt-to-any-degree." Patterson is clearly rocked by some sharp long-range artillery from Ali and drops to a knee under a flurry. Granted on the whole you have somewhat of a point- that is, Patterson was only really knocked out by a couple of monstrous hitters and most of the other knockdowns he suffered were brief/not of a serious nature.

Quote:
IMHO NO ONE knocks Patterson OUT!
Liston already knocked Patterson out twice, unless if by "OUT" you mean out cold. I would grant that it would at least be very unlikely for anyone to put Patterson out cold.

Quote:
Outside of a prime Foreman/Frazier I'd really have liked to see ol' Patterson mixing with some of the 70's boys in prime:
Norton/Lyle/Shavers etc...you think these guys walk right thru him?
Better think again IMHO...
I'd favor Patterson over those guys.
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Old 10-06-2007, 09:30 PM   #40
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Default Re: Rocky Marciano -vs- Floyd Patterson

Did you guys know Floyd said Ingo hit harder then Liston? He did. Also Jack Dempsey said Marciano hit harder then either Louis or him.
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Old 10-06-2007, 10:44 PM   #41
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Default Re: Rocky Marciano -vs- Floyd Patterson

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Originally Posted by timmers612
Did you guys know Floyd said Ingo hit harder then Liston? He did. Also Jack Dempsey said Marciano hit harder then either Louis or him.
Louis stated he could never have beaten Marciano. I don't really believe that, but it is what he said.
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Old 10-08-2007, 09:00 AM   #42
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Default Re: Rocky Marciano -vs- Floyd Patterson

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Originally Posted by spongebob
Marciano knock out 1rd..............Patterson in a coma..........
You stand-up wag you!
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