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Old 10-05-2007, 07:11 PM   #136
Zakman
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Default Re: History's most disgraceful fighter

History's most disgraceful fighter?? For disgracing the game IN the ring, which I think should be the critereon - there is NO ONE who did this more often or more consistently than the serial cheater named JOHN RUIZ!

From his unjust rise in the rankings as a result of his connections with a powerful promoter, this glorified New England clubfighter used those connections to get away with illegal tactics in virtually every fight, to win matches he would never have otherwise "won" against world class fighters, because he didn't have the ability to compete with such fighters.

This undermined the legitimacy of the game in ways that the occasional illegal tactic used by other more talented fighters to supplement their legitimate boxing skills never could - because it led to a fighter holding a title entirely based on violating the basic rules of the game.

Essentially, Ruiz's offenses fall into three categories:

Excessive Holding: this was used by Ruiz in virtually every fight after Don King manuevered him into the ratings. Unlike other fighters with actual boxing ability, Ruiz didn't just use holding as an occasional supplement to legitimate boxing - because he no legitimate boxing ability - he used it to make up for the lack of them.

Bogus Decisions: strictly speaking, this wasn't Ruiz's doing, but King's - but Ruiz benefitted from King's influence in getting favorable decisions in fights he clearly didn't deserve the nod. The most egregious examples of this occurred in the third Holyfield fight and the Golota fight.

Faking "Low Blows:" this is easily Ruiz's most disgusting offense against the sport - the shameful overacting when hit with shots anywhere near his trunks was a tactic Ruiz employed in at least three fights, against Jimmy Thunder, Evander Holyfield in their second fight, and repeatedly against Kirk Johnson to force a bogus DQ. In the Thunder fight it helped get him a split decision, and against Holyfield, it enabled him avoid being counted out when knocked down by a body shot.


For the sheer blatantcy and repeated violations of good sportsmanship, there is no fighter who has disgraced the sport through what he did INSIDE the ring more than John Ruiz. Without it, and the connections with King that made it possible, Ruiz would have been lucky to win the regional title belt, let alone a paper "world" title. Now THAT'S disgraceful.
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Old 10-05-2007, 07:41 PM   #137
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Default Re: History's most disgraceful fighter

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Originally Posted by cross_trainer
Agreed, but there are other boxers who have committed murders (one of 'em killed his own wife!). The sucker punching "helps" if you could call it that, but are there any outstandingly brutal things to set him apart?
Even if you leave out the murder Butler sucker punching Grant as he was about to shake his hand for me puts him above the rest. It was such a cowardly and utterly disgraceful act at a 9/11 fundraiser of all things. There are no excuses for such an act. It was one of the most shocking things I've ever seen in the ring.
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Old 10-06-2007, 07:13 AM   #138
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Default Re: History's most disgraceful fighter

Well as much as I would like to vote Cotto for how dirty he fought against Judah; I think I am going to have to go Lenox Lewis for back stabbing Canada. Remember Lewis the last level of hell is for betrayers. I hope your first day there last's 10000 years, and that it is the shortest.
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Old 10-06-2007, 07:18 AM   #139
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Default Re: History's most disgraceful fighter

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Originally Posted by Thad Spencer
I change my mind from Quitssius Clay to Sven "The faggot" Ottke
I forgot all about Ottke...

Man stays at home and wins some shady decisions and ducks every reasonable threat. Yeah he is a pretty disgraceful fighter when it comes down to it.
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Old 10-06-2007, 01:19 PM   #140
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Default Re: History's most disgraceful fighter

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Most people love him here but I pick Carlos Monzon. Dude tossed his wife off a balcony and to my knowledge never showed any remorse.
Accidentally, he was in prison for manslaughter not murder. Boxing has had tons of not nice people, some of them my heroes in the ring.

But what he did in the ring, I think Bobby Frankham takes the biscuit, but unlike the USA (and Butler) we (The BBB of C) threw him out the sport.
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Old 10-06-2007, 01:27 PM   #141
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Default Re: History's most disgraceful fighter

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zakman
History's most disgraceful fighter?? For disgracing the game IN the ring, which I think should be the critereon - there is NO ONE who did this more often or more consistently than the serial cheater named JOHN RUIZ!

From his unjust rise in the rankings as a result of his connections with a powerful promoter, this glorified New England clubfighter used those connections to get away with illegal tactics in virtually every fight, to win matches he would never have otherwise "won" against world class fighters, because he didn't have the ability to compete with such fighters.

This undermined the legitimacy of the game in ways that the occasional illegal tactic used by other more talented fighters to supplement their legitimate boxing skills never could - because it led to a fighter holding a title entirely based on violating the basic rules of the game.

Essentially, Ruiz's offenses fall into three categories:

Excessive Holding: this was used by Ruiz in virtually every fight after Don King manuevered him into the ratings. Unlike other fighters with actual boxing ability, Ruiz didn't just use holding as an occasional supplement to legitimate boxing - because he no legitimate boxing ability - he used it to make up for the lack of them.

Bogus Decisions: strictly speaking, this wasn't Ruiz's doing, but King's - but Ruiz benefitted from King's influence in getting favorable decisions in fights he clearly didn't deserve the nod. The most egregious examples of this occurred in the third Holyfield fight and the Golota fight.

Faking "Low Blows:" this is easily Ruiz's most disgusting offense against the sport - the shameful overacting when hit with shots anywhere near his trunks was a tactic Ruiz employed in at least three fights, against Jimmy Thunder, Evander Holyfield in their second fight, and repeatedly against Kirk Johnson to force a bogus DQ. In the Thunder fight it helped get him a split decision, and against Holyfield, it enabled him avoid being counted out when knocked down by a body shot.


For the sheer blatantcy and repeated violations of good sportsmanship, there is no fighter who has disgraced the sport through what he did INSIDE the ring more than John Ruiz. Without it, and the connections with King that made it possible, Ruiz would have been lucky to win the regional title belt, let alone a paper "world" title. Now THAT'S disgraceful.
Not sure on the Johnson fight, most of thsos blows were pretty low.
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Old 10-06-2007, 03:58 PM   #142
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Default Re: History's most disgraceful fighter

If Tyson gets mentioned for biting, Evander "Headbutt" Holyfield deserves a mention as well.
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Old 10-06-2007, 04:04 PM   #143
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Default Re: History's most disgraceful fighter

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Originally Posted by TBooze
It still was a very tough call for the most right wing post World WarII goverment we have had; hence there was little chance Foot would of taken us to war. There comes a point where IMO you have to let the past go, that would of been an opportunity to do it, take the high road, and show up the Argentine Junta for what it was, the Falkland Islanders who did not want to live under Argentine rule could of come to Britain. It would of saved hundreds of British lives.
That's the spirit!! Hey listen. I need a house tomorrow, and I kinda like yours. I expect you to be out by the morning, we can save ourself the horrible mess of fighting, and you becoming injured in the process

Say hi to the misses, she's still yours for the evening.
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Old 10-06-2007, 04:06 PM   #144
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Default Re: History's most disgraceful fighter

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Originally Posted by RDJ
That's the spirit!! Hey listen. I need a house tomorrow, and I kinda like yours. I expect you to be out by the morning, we can save ourself the horrible mess of fighting, and you becoming injured in the process

Say hi to the misses, she's still yours for the evening.
I see you're still alive and kicking hey

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Old 10-06-2007, 05:09 PM   #145
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Default Re: History's most disgraceful fighter

Quote:
Originally Posted by RDJ
That's the spirit!! Hey listen. I need a house tomorrow, and I kinda like yours. I expect you to be out by the morning, we can save ourself the horrible mess of fighting, and you becoming injured in the process

Say hi to the misses, she's still yours for the evening.
I feel for you, trust me the house ain't worth putting up with my misses.
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Old 10-06-2007, 09:41 PM   #146
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Default Re: History's most disgraceful fighter

Im not sure exactly which one it is but one of the hilton boys would have to be one of the biggest peices of shit ever.(i think it was davey or mathew)

It had came out that he ***ually abused his kids(daughters)and would do so asmuch as everyday.

I feel sick even writing this..

His own young kids for ****s sake..
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Old 10-06-2007, 09:55 PM   #147
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Default Re: History's most disgraceful fighter

Quote:
Originally Posted by ozziebattler
Im not sure exactly which one it is but one of the hilton boys would have to be one of the biggest peices of shit ever.(i think it was davey or mathew)

It had came out that he ***ually abused his kids(daughters)and would do so asmuch as everyday.

I feel sick even writing this..

His own young kids for ****s sake..
It was Davey. You forgot to mention that as soon as he got out of jail he assaulted his wife; top shelf douche bag in my books.
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Old 10-09-2007, 05:06 AM   #148
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Default Re: History's most disgraceful fighter

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It was Davey. You forgot to mention that as soon as he got out of jail he assaulted his wife; top shelf douche bag in my books.
Please tell me is in jail for life now??
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Old 10-10-2007, 12:13 PM   #149
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Default Re: History's most disgraceful fighter

More than likely, it's some fighter nobody has a name for, who's emotional and psychological weakness allowed for deplorably inhumane acts against society. Generally speaking, in any field of life, to become notable in your field you must possess a certain amount of control, determination and responsibility to your craft to sustain any success.

It would be someone who lacked the ability to see the forest for the trees, as it were, to willingly (or sub-consciously) risk a possible future of fame and money due to an incapability to see the disasterous results of their compulsively wrong nature.

We've never heard of the guy who raped a child and murdered a convenience store clerk or some other assortment of reprehensible actions toward society.
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