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Old 10-11-2007, 04:39 PM   #1
ChrisPontius
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Default On powerlifting and cruiser/heavy/superheavy weights..

Cross_trainer, said the following in an other thread:

"According to powerlifting and Olympic lifting totals taken from Olympic lifting and the three most important powerlifting organizations (USAPL, IPF, RAW), the difference between strength in the 217-220 pound weightclass and the 242 pound weightclass is almost nonexistent. In one case (Olympic lifting) the totals are exactly the same, and in another (Raw powerlifting--the only one that does not use equipment) the totals of the smaller men are actually greater by a hundred pounds. Even fighters in Marciano's weightclass (if we use Olympic and powerlifting totals to figure out the maximum power output of a fighter their size) should hit about 90% as hard as a "superheavyweight"."

Can anyone provide a link with the official world records for those powerlifting categories?
The best i could find was an American only competition, and there the records between a 75kg and 85kg were barely any different in a few categories or at best 10% worse. But CT just said that a superheavyweight punches only 10% harder than a 185lb fighter. If that is as much difference as between lightheavyweight and cruiserweight(old heavyweight), then i'd say it is very relavent.



By the way, i don't really think the comparison of boxing to powerlifting is a good one. For one because punching is only a very small part of a huge equation in boxing. Second, even if you only use it to compare punching power, a deadlift is very different from throwing a power punch.
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Old 10-12-2007, 01:10 AM   #2
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Default Re: On powerlifting and cruiser/heavy/superheavy weights..

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisPontius

punching is only a very small part of a huge equation in boxing
Boxing revolves around punching, I'd say it plays more than a "very small part"
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Old 10-12-2007, 06:45 AM   #3
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Default Re: On powerlifting and cruiser/heavy/superheavy weights..

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisPontius
Cross_trainer, said the following in an other thread:

"According to powerlifting and Olympic lifting totals taken from Olympic lifting and the three most important powerlifting organizations (USAPL, IPF, RAW), the difference between strength in the 217-220 pound weightclass and the 242 pound weightclass is almost nonexistent. In one case (Olympic lifting) the totals are exactly the same, and in another (Raw powerlifting--the only one that does not use equipment) the totals of the smaller men are actually greater by a hundred pounds. Even fighters in Marciano's weightclass (if we use Olympic and powerlifting totals to figure out the maximum power output of a fighter their size) should hit about 90% as hard as a "superheavyweight"."

Can anyone provide a link with the official world records for those powerlifting categories?

The best i could find was an American only competition, and there the records between a 75kg and 85kg were barely any different in a few categories or at best 10% worse. But CT just said that a superheavyweight punches only 10% harder than a 185lb fighter. If that is as much difference as between lightheavyweight and cruiserweight(old heavyweight), then i'd say it is very relavent.

By the way, i don't really think the comparison of boxing to powerlifting is a good one. For one because punching is only a very small part of a huge equation in boxing. Second, even if you only use it to compare punching power, a deadlift is very different from throwing a power punch.
Here is the link you want to see. Click on the weights, and see the records. The bigger the weight lifter is, the more he can lift. I don't think any lower weight class out performs an upper weight class in a top 20 average sense as presented in the below web site. However the differences between the weight classes begin to narrow around 220 pounds.

Come back Cross_Trainer, this thread needs your keyboard!

As for punching power, muscles in the shoulders seem most important, followed by the back, arms, hips and legs. There is such a thing as " punchers shoulders " .

Velocity, and technique also come into play in terms of hitting power.


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Old 10-12-2007, 02:43 PM   #4
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Default Re: On powerlifting and cruiser/heavy/superheavy weights..

a well conditioned, tough and quick 200 lber could do fine in the heavyweight division, but there's this stigma they can't. I thought roy jones could have beaten a lot of other heavyweights besides john ruiz but he didn't want to risk it.
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Old 10-13-2007, 04:32 PM   #5
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Default Re: On powerlifting and cruiser/heavy/superheavy weights..

This is similar to the argument of which dog can bite harder, the pitbull or the German Shepard, Rottweiller, etc... It doesn't matter. All the aforementioned dogs are capable of breaking both bones in your arm easily, so they all can do the trick. It's a matter of which dog has the mentality to do it. Yes, the pitbull is probably stronger (for its size), but noone wants to take a hard bite from any of them. It doesn't matter if Marciano punched harder than Tyson or Lewis, what matters is the fact that he is capable of knocking the tar out of many men, and has the potential to hurt just about anyone. 185 or 245, those guys can hurt you.
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Old 10-13-2007, 11:44 PM   #6
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Default Re: On powerlifting and cruiser/heavy/superheavy weights..

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveTheWave
This is similar to the argument of which dog can bite harder, the pitbull or the German Shepard, Rottweiller, etc... It doesn't matter. All the aforementioned dogs are capable of breaking both bones in your arm easily, so they all can do the trick. It's a matter of which dog has the mentality to do it. Yes, the pitbull is probably stronger (for its size), but noone wants to take a hard bite from any of them. It doesn't matter if Marciano punched harder than Tyson or Lewis, what matters is the fact that he is capable of knocking the tar out of many men, and has the potential to hurt just about anyone. 185 or 245, those guys can hurt you.
good post
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Old 10-14-2007, 11:32 AM   #7
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Default Re: On powerlifting and cruiser/heavy/superheavy weights..

Hi Mendoza,

Damn, you know your boxing!!!

The statement that you make about shoulder muscles and punching
power makes sense. Case in point - Bob Foster. Foster had skinny
arms and legs but he had strong-looking shoulder muscles.

In my younger days, when I was involved with boxing/martial arts,
I was a good puncher and I too have big shoulders for my size
(5' 8" - 5' 9"). When I was young(er) I did lots of pullups, dips
and shouder presses. Guess thats where the punching power
came from.

Also, when you drop arm shoulder down to throw a hook to the
body, you can feel the power coming from the shoulder.

BTW, thanks for all the vintage posts/articles about Johnson.
Very informative!!!!

Grebfan9
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mendoza
Here is the link you want to see. Click on the weights, and see the records. The bigger the weight lifter is, the more he can lift. I don't think any lower weight class out performs an upper weight class in a top 20 average sense as presented in the below web site. However the differences between the weight classes begin to narrow around 220 pounds.

Come back Cross_Trainer, this thread needs your keyboard!

As for punching power, muscles in the shoulders seem most important, followed by the back, arms, hips and legs. There is such a thing as " punchers shoulders " .

Velocity, and technique also come into play in terms of hitting power.


[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
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Old 10-14-2007, 11:42 AM   #8
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Default Re: On powerlifting and cruiser/heavy/superheavy weights..

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveTheWave
This is similar to the argument of which dog can bite harder, the pitbull or the German Shepard, Rottweiller, etc... It doesn't matter. All the aforementioned dogs are capable of breaking both bones in your arm easily, so they all can do the trick. It's a matter of which dog has the mentality to do it. Yes, the pitbull is probably stronger (for its size), but noone wants to take a hard bite from any of them. It doesn't matter if Marciano punched harder than Tyson or Lewis, what matters is the fact that he is capable of knocking the tar out of many men, and has the potential to hurt just about anyone. 185 or 245, those guys can hurt you.
This is the bottom line.
Very few men in history are walking away from taking a full-blooded shot to the chin from a Dempsey or a Marciano, so whether or not a Foreman or a Lennox hits harder is of little consequence.

Last edited by cross_trainer; 08-02-2006 at 10:11 AM.
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Old 10-14-2007, 03:43 PM   #9
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Default Re: On powerlifting and cruiser/heavy/superheavy weights..

I'm fairly sure CT's stats are off here. When talking about comparable lifters (eg. world class VS world class) heavier powerlifters always outweigh smaller powerlifters.

Because weight classes in powerlifting are based on maximums rather than minimums, if there were records where heavier lifters had a smaller record than that of a lighter lifter, the lighter lifter can just enter into the higher weight-class and beat the record. For example, say a 220 lb lifter can bench above the open weight-class record; he can just enter for that class on his next competition and beat the record. Since he will have probably drained a bit to get down to 220 anyway, he'll rarely be out of the class anyway if he doesn't drain.

Powerlifting is a vastly different sport to boxing, which is why I do the former and not the latter. Weight draining is different. There's also the abscence of a human factor in powerlifting: one doesn't have to do lifts in a "tug-of-war" fashion!
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