Muhammud Ali vs. Roy Jones

[crippet]

Is this thread real????
A guy fights one fight at heavyweight in his whole career - And now he's given even a remote chance against one of the greatest heavyweights ever.
I would actually favour Ruiz in a rematch with Jones!

[My2Sense]

Originally Posted by Sweet Pea

Ali in his prime days relied mainly on his physical abilities, his quickness and reflexes, to get away with his textbooks mistakes. Against someone who is quicker with better reflexes than him, do you think that would not kinda mess his style up a bit?

Patterson was as fast as any HW ever (reportedly the fastest by those who have actually clocked him), yet Ali stopped him twice without being "messed up" too much.

I'd say Roy is the one who has shown an inclination to be troubled by speed, as he's lost and/or struggled numerous times with some of quicker-handed fighters he's fought, most of whom weren't all that much otherwise - including vs. Griffin while right at his peak, and vs. Glen Johnson only a year after fighting Ruiz.

Either way, I think a more important point is that Roy has been troubled by feints and leaves himself open for jabs - fatal weaknesses against someone like Ali. Ali would almost certainly tee off on him with his jab, and had enough power to end the fight if Roy got too brave (although more likely he'd be content to stay away and lose a wide decision).

[My2Sense]

Originally Posted by Sweet Pea

Really? With that amazing one punch power that Ali so regularly showed off? I could say the same thing about Ruiz. He should've overpowered Roy, his Heavyweight punches should've taken Roy's head off, but they didn't.

Ali hit hard enough to stop guys like Foreman and Bonavena, who were never stopped otherwise, and had other eye-catching KOs here and there. You couldn't say anything like that about Ruiz's power, which was virtually non-existent.

[cuchulain]

Originally Posted by Sweet Pea

Jones was not a great Middleweight, he was a great Super Middleweight and Light Heavyweight. Ali is the bigger man yes, but the Jones of the Ruiz fight, while smaller, is quicker,

No.

The smw or LHW Jones was quicker than Ali, but the Jones who faced Ruiz wasn't any appreciable degree quicker than the Ali who faced Williams. Ruiz just made him look that way.

Originally Posted by Sweet Pea

and again, Ali relied a lot on his quickness and reflexes to win because he made so many textbook mistakes.

You could say pretty much the same about Jones

Originally Posted by Sweet Pea

Against someone where he doesn't have these advantages, you disagree that it would be a tough fight for him?

Yes. Tough is too strong a word. He would have his difficulties ad******g to the fastest and most athletic fighter he'd ever faced, but he adjusted better than most to any kind of style.

Originally Posted by Sweet Pea

It's not like Ali was a devastating puncher

But he did have a lot more power than he's often credited for. Certainly enough to bother Roy when he landed. And he would land.

Originally Posted by Sweet Pea

or pressure fighter, so what path would he take in this fight? Simple questions.

The SMW or LHW Roy had the speed and movement to 'run' from Ali for a while but didn't have the pop to cause the slightest concern. And he reach deficit combined with Ali's unorthodox pulling straight back would point to Ali landing more often. The accumulation would take its toll and eventually he would slow down. At this point Ali would pepper him and get the stoppage.

The HW Roy doesn't have the edge in speed to survive even that long. His power at HW is no better than Foster's was against Ali. and that wasn't enough deterrent to prevent Ali basically having his way.


Anything can happen on a given night, but I can't really see a way for any version of Roy to survive fifteen or even 12, against the 66/67 Ali.

[cuchulain]

Originally Posted by Sweet Pea

In that case, Ruiz was faster than Meldrick Taylor.

SMW and LHW Roy was definitely a shade faster, but the Roy who faced Ruiz was NOT faster than the Ali who faced Terrell or Williams.

[cuchulain]

Originally Posted by McGrain

I can't believe this thread has done six pages. I remember not reading it the last time, now I have to not read it again?

I made two posts on here in response to Pea before I realized this was TWO YEARS OLD.

(At least I said the same thin as two years ago).



I now have a reason to look forward to Alzheimers.

I can watch all the great fights (and movies) again, for the first time !




( BTW, haven't seen Senya around for a while. I used to enjoy arguing with him. )

[Briscoe]

Originally Posted by redrooster

Prime Roy, the miracle man of boxing could give Muhammad real problems. Certainly would go ten and possibly win on points the way Spinks outpointed a sluggish Holmes. Would the Ali-Frazier two match of '73 be in jeopardy?

What? No, not at all. Ali at his prime against Roy would be a near mismatch. I'd give Roy the benefit of his reflexes as he would try to beat Ali, but over the later rounds Ali's ring movement, jab, reach would prove too much over the long haul. I'll never say Roy wasn't a great fighter, but this is not his match. At best he shows some skill and gets KO'ed or TKO'ed.

[Sardu]

Ali would be troubled by the RJJ's greater speed and reflexes. However, I do see Ali starting to figure out and wear down Jones later in the fight. Ali by either late-TKO or UD.

[SOMERSETDURAN]

I like Jones, but this is just a comedy thread. Jones might last a few rounds, but that is all he would do.

[Bokaj]

Originally Posted by Sardu

Ali would be troubled by the RJJ's greater speed and reflexes. However, I do see Ali starting to figure out and wear down Jones later in the fight. Ali by either late-TKO or UD.

I agree.

[BlueApollo]

There are some greats who the vast majority of people believe would dominate Roy, but who, at least IMO, Roy would have given nightmares at his best.

Ali absolutely isn't one of them though, for about a hundred different reasons. I'd say a stoppage around the 10th.

[I am Legion]

Originally Posted by BlueApollo

There are some greats who the vast majority of people believe would dominate Roy, but who, at least IMO, Roy would have given nightmares at his best.

Ali absolutely isn't one of them though, for about a hundred different reasons. I'd say a stoppage around the 10th.

Well said.

This has to be the dumbest thread ever.

I doubt Jones gets passed round 5.

[he grant]

Ali would take him out early, much like Tarver did in their second fight.

[TommyV]

Originally Posted by Sweet Pea

Really? With that amazing one punch power that Ali so regularly showed off? I could say the same thing about Ruiz. He should've overpowered Roy, his Heavyweight punches should've taken Roy's head off, but they didn't. I am not saying Roy could hurt Ali, I am saying this, and listen up:

Ali in his prime days relied mainly on his physical abilities, his quickness and reflexes, to get away with his textbooks mistakes. Against someone who is quicker with better reflexes than him, do you think that would not kinda mess his style up a bit? We're not talking about MW Roy here, we're talking the Roy who fought Ruiz.

I would go with Ali to win still, but don't act like this matchup doesn't present some problems.

Ali hits harder than Ruiz that's for sure. His power - while not one of his top attributes and not amongst the elite power-punchers that's for sure - is often under-rated. He could definately knock out Jones if he caught him.

And I'm pretty sure he would. Jones still got caught at times by Ruiz, although never with anything huge. And you don't need telling Ali is superior to Ruiz in every department.

Yes, Ali made a lot of mistakes and he was about as far from text-book as you could imagine. And yes his speed advantages would be lost here, but it's not like he is much slower than Jones. It would be probably be a slight edge to Jones. And you ignore the fact he is still dwarfed in comparison when we measure them up physically.

And Jones made a lot of mistakes aswell. He dropped his hands and did things that a fighter shouldn't get away with. We can see that as much now as anything, because now that his reflexes are gone, he's getting caught and knocked out because his guard is terrible.

With that, and him being the aggressor coming forward in this fight, I think Ali more than has the speed, accuracy, and opportunities to catch Roy as he comes forward. Yes it could take him a few rounds to time Roy and catch him, but rounds he's got as Jones sure as hell isn't stopping Ali. He'd catch him eventually and Jones get's knocked out within 7 or 8.

[johnmaff36]

Cant beleive some of what im reading here. Ali v jones??? And then some saying about roys speed? Jones can run all nite but he wont get points unless he lands shots and theres no way hes in and out with Ali. A mismatch if both in their prime