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Old 03-17-2010, 08:29 PM   #46
Blood Green
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Default Re: Worst Greatest ever.

Oliver McCall:
--knocked out Lennox Lewis and got the better of their series overall, losing the second fight only because he was in an unstable mental state. Despite that, Lewis' bombs couldn't phase him.
--beat 6 men who had, would, or did own legitimate belts (Akinwande, Lennox Lewis, Oleg Maskaev, Bruce Seldon, Damiani, Holmes)
--most bulletproof chin in history
--between 88 and 2004, only lost to men who would hold claim to a legitimate title at some point in their careers, if not at the time of the fight (Douglas, Norris, Lewis, Tucker, Bruno)
--viable contender in 4 decades, assuming he stays relevant.
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Old 03-17-2010, 08:32 PM   #47
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Default Re: Worst Greatest ever.

To fight the best of your time to rematch tough fights well, Jeffries,Louis,Marciano,Ali,Lewis,Tyson,Tunney
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Old 03-17-2010, 10:50 PM   #48
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Default Re: Worst Greatest ever.

I'm a bit surprised that no one has said Sonny Liston.

He more or less laid waste to a solid group of heavyweight contenders on the way up and in the process instilled such a sense of fear in the reigning champion at the time that the heavyweight king brought a disguise to the ring when he was finally compelled to face him. He was considered to be such a force that his two losses to a young Ali were immediately dismissed by some as "fixed fights" or "dives". And in terms of head to head talent he ates very highly indeed, with many seasoned observers favoring him over virtually every heavyweight fighter who ever lived.

Given that, he seems as good a choice as any to nominate.
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Old 03-18-2010, 08:41 AM   #49
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Default Re: Worst Greatest ever.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boilermaker View Post
Okay, it looks like we have slowed up, so here is my contribution as Worst Greatest ever. We will see if anyone think it is too far fetched or not.

Throughout history, for as long as anyone can remember (or at least since 3000BC if you believe the internet), the idea of prize fight has been that one fighter has to knock the other fight down. Rules can change. Sometimes there was London Prize ring rules which allowed 30 second recoveries although more recently we have seen the 10 second countouts.
For the true purists any World championship fight is and should be a fight to the finish. No judges decisions, which only create controversy. Great heroes can and have lost their lives trying to be the greatest. You donít lose a world title unless you are counted out.
In the past we have seen the Legendary John L Sullivan fight for hours upon hours against Jake Kilrain, the equally legendary Jack Johnson only ever had his crown taken from him when a younger champion managed to catch his slowing legs. It was far more than 15 rounds and neither fighter would have deserved to lose their crown just because 3 men in suits thought they might not be winning the fight. NO Sir, the name of the game is to KO the other fighter and if a fighter cannot do this, he is not the better prize fighter, end of story. Those who win aided by corruption and judges decisions really should simply have NDs next to their name. It means nothing who people think were winning if they donít win.
That being said, the fact is that sports do evolve. 15 and later 12 round fights are a fact of life. Lets be honest though, all sports evolve, as does the human race. Physically, looking at running swimming and any other measurable sport, older athletes simply are not in the same ball game. This means that the greatest fighter ever will almost certainly come from say 1980s on. Rocky Marciano was a great fighter but he is simply to small to compete against todays fighters. Ali was dominant but he never fought the giants like Lewis and others. And lets be honest, he primed in the late 60s. Name me one athlete from the late 60s who could actually compete with todays athletes on measurable times. I am sorry but the sport has progressed. It is a fact of life.
But saying that, there is one great who is the undiputed greatest heavyweight ever (well worst greatest anyway). Like the old Gladiators, he has never been Kod, ever not before during or after his boxing career. Like the legendary old stars, he has fought literally thousands of unrecorded fights, sometimes against all time greats in the prime of their life and he has never been down. I talk of course of the legendary Oliver McCall.

He fought hundreds of exhibitions (sparring) against the biggest KO artist ever, in his prime, Mike Tyson. One of these guys was knocked down. But it certainly wasnít McCall. He became the Undisputed Greatest prizefighter in the world with an absolutely comprehensive thumping of another prototype fro the modern Superheavyweight and theoretically the second best fighter ever, in Lennox Lewis. As to be expected, the big hitting Lewis had to be saved by the referee and was comprehensively beaten.
McCalls record is nothing short of astonishing. To this day, he has still never been beaten or knocked down. Sure he got some bad judging decisions, but has never looked like being stopped. If the fights had been true 60 round fights like Sullivan, Jeffries and others had, McCall would have won all fights by KO. His jaw (similar to Jeffries) was simply too good to allow him to be beaten.

The closest he ever came was the Lewis rematch. This is a fight where he showed a great chin by allowing Lennox to tee off at will and still was not hurt in the slightest by the big hitting Lennox. The referee stopped the fight (in reality it was the equivalent of an old time DQ) but Oliver was never down, and never looked like getting hurt. He was arguably still the best heavyweight in the world.
And as the rest of mankind started to evolve into a modern super species, McCall even to this day, as McCall aged , not even the modern superheavys could even look like beating him in a prize fight. Noone ever has and no one ever will.
Oliver is likely holidaying for a long time. If he were to ever launch a successful surely it would remove all doubt that he is the greatest ever. Either way, I think that Oliver McCall is the fighter who lays claim to being the Worst Greatest ever.

What do you guys think does he have a claim, weak as it is?
very good post. the claim is fine.
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Old 03-18-2010, 10:10 AM   #50
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Default Re: Worst Greatest ever.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boilermaker View Post
Okay, it looks like we have slowed up, so here is my contribution as Worst Greatest ever. We will see if anyone think it is too far fetched or not.

Throughout history, for as long as anyone can remember (or at least since 3000BC if you believe the internet), the idea of prize fight has been that one fighter has to knock the other fight down. Rules can change. Sometimes there was London Prize ring rules which allowed 30 second recoveries although more recently we have seen the 10 second countouts.
For the true purists any World championship fight is and should be a fight to the finish. No judges decisions, which only create controversy. Great heroes can and have lost their lives trying to be the greatest. You donít lose a world title unless you are counted out.
In the past we have seen the Legendary John L Sullivan fight for hours upon hours against Jake Kilrain, the equally legendary Jack Johnson only ever had his crown taken from him when a younger champion managed to catch his slowing legs. It was far more than 15 rounds and neither fighter would have deserved to lose their crown just because 3 men in suits thought they might not be winning the fight. NO Sir, the name of the game is to KO the other fighter and if a fighter cannot do this, he is not the better prize fighter, end of story. Those who win aided by corruption and judges decisions really should simply have NDs next to their name. It means nothing who people think were winning if they donít win.
That being said, the fact is that sports do evolve. 15 and later 12 round fights are a fact of life. Lets be honest though, all sports evolve, as does the human race. Physically, looking at running swimming and any other measurable sport, older athletes simply are not in the same ball game. This means that the greatest fighter ever will almost certainly come from say 1980s on. Rocky Marciano was a great fighter but he is simply to small to compete against todays fighters. Ali was dominant but he never fought the giants like Lewis and others. And lets be honest, he primed in the late 60s. Name me one athlete from the late 60s who could actually compete with todays athletes on measurable times. I am sorry but the sport has progressed. It is a fact of life.
But saying that, there is one great who is the undiputed greatest heavyweight ever (well worst greatest anyway). Like the old Gladiators, he has never been Kod, ever not before during or after his boxing career. Like the legendary old stars, he has fought literally thousands of unrecorded fights, sometimes against all time greats in the prime of their life and he has never been down. I talk of course of the legendary Oliver McCall.

He fought hundreds of exhibitions (sparring) against the biggest KO artist ever, in his prime, Mike Tyson. One of these guys was knocked down. But it certainly wasnít McCall. He became the Undisputed Greatest prizefighter in the world with an absolutely comprehensive thumping of another prototype fro the modern Superheavyweight and theoretically the second best fighter ever, in Lennox Lewis. As to be expected, the big hitting Lewis had to be saved by the referee and was comprehensively beaten.
McCalls record is nothing short of astonishing. To this day, he has still never been beaten or knocked down. Sure he got some bad judging decisions, but has never looked like being stopped. If the fights had been true 60 round fights like Sullivan, Jeffries and others had, McCall would have won all fights by KO. His jaw (similar to Jeffries) was simply too good to allow him to be beaten.

The closest he ever came was the Lewis rematch. This is a fight where he showed a great chin by allowing Lennox to tee off at will and still was not hurt in the slightest by the big hitting Lennox. The referee stopped the fight (in reality it was the equivalent of an old time DQ) but Oliver was never down, and never looked like getting hurt. He was arguably still the best heavyweight in the world.
And as the rest of mankind started to evolve into a modern super species, McCall even to this day, as McCall aged , not even the modern superheavys could even look like beating him in a prize fight. Noone ever has and no one ever will.
Oliver is likely holidaying for a long time. If he were to ever launch a successful surely it would remove all doubt that he is the greatest ever. Either way, I think that Oliver McCall is the fighter who lays claim to being the Worst Greatest ever.

What do you guys think does he have a claim, weak as it is?
oops, totally missed this one. Just add a couple of my bullet points and we've got a gem.
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Old 03-23-2010, 01:01 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haggis McJackass View Post
Vitali.

* Never knocked down.

* Never losing on any scorecards at a fight's conclusion.

* Only two opponents ever survived the distance. (Highest KO% of any HW champ)

* Only ever defeated by debilitating mid-fight injury.

* Comes back at age 36, when many ATGs are shot, and immediately resumes domination of best available competition.

* Head-to-head with other ATG heavyweights, his combination of size, strength, reflexes, handspeed, calmness, accuracy and awkward style present physical challenges that no other HW ATG has seen, let alone defeated, in his career.

Yep the man is a very skilled monster! Talent-wise the best heavyweight ever to step into the ring.
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