Sonny Liston vs Gene Tunney, 15 rounds

[Bummy Davis]

Interesting matchup Chris, With all that I know of Listons trouble with speedy guys. This one is a tough fight for him. Gene had great legs and Sonny was not really a wear you down guy. Sonny would keep Gene on his toes and speed and movement would have to be constant. I see Sonny with swolen eyes and shoulder problems from reaching and Gene pulls out a 10-15 rd Close nod 115-113 115-112 114-114 if Sonny does not give up the chase with an injury

[Bummy Davis]

Originally Posted by he grant

I'd say Liston was more durable. I've seen the bombs Liston took from Williams, a much bigger puncher than anyone Marciano ever fought. In fact, your the first person I ever saw question Liston's chin ...

Anyway, Tunney by decision ..

Fragile chinned Bob Satterfield fought a 31-1 Cleveland Williams and took his best punces and Ko'd him in 3...Sorry but Williams was a body beautifull but never really KO'd quality and I think his power was overated. In fact Walcoot and Moore were harder punchers and Charles Ko'd better fighters. In fact Rex Layne at least beat Satterfield once.

[TheGreatA]

Originally Posted by Bummy Davis

Fragile chinned Bob Satterfield fought a 31-1 Cleveland Williams and took his best punces and Ko'd him in 3...Sorry but Williams was a body beautifull but never really KO'd quality and I think his power was overated. In fact Walcoot and Moore were harder punchers and Charles Ko'd better fighters. In fact Rex Layne at least beat Satterfield once.

Williams was a 20 year old who took the fight on a short notice. On film it's obvious that Cleveland Williams was a terrific puncher with quick handspeed. Maybe not the most durable but the only man who knocked him down in between 1954-1964 (when he was shot) was Sonny Liston.

[ChrisPontius]

Originally Posted by McGrain

I'd say that Marciano was more durable but that Liston would be better equipped to eat the big turn-around style punch.

Based on what? Moore and Walcott had Marciano down early, but he was never down after warming up. That is not to say it can't happen, of course. But at the same time, Liston was knocked down by Marshall, Ali (i think the KD was legit), Wills and Martin. He may not have been at his best for some of those, but neither was Marciano when he fought some tough opponents but he didn't touch the canvas. Liston was also staggered by Whitehurst, King and DeJohn. Now it's normal, especially for heavyweights, to get stunned every now and then, but nothing that i see suggests Liston doesn't risk getting stopped if Marciano is... by Tunney.


And is Tunney even capable of throwing a big turn-around punch, anyway? Doesn't seem to be the type, not to mention he wasn't that big a hitter, even at lower weights.

[Bummy Davis]

Originally Posted by TheGreatA

Williams was a 20 year old who took the fight on a short notice. On film it's obvious that Cleveland Williams was a terrific puncher with quick handspeed. Maybe not the most durable but the only man who knocked him down in between 1954-1964 (when he was shot) was Sonny Liston.

Williams had 31 fight and was a few days short of his 21st birthday. Thing with Williams is he fought Keen Simmons at the time he had a record of 26-0 Simmons who Marciano KO'd in 8 in 51, went the distance with Big Cat in 53. Again when Willaims moved up in class Frankie Daniels and Howard Turner and Wayne Beathea were good wins but all by decision. Williams had power but very overated as a puncher.

Originally Posted by ChrisPontius

This is a very interesting matchup. Why?

Well, on one hand, Liston was very strong but had a lot of trouble with a faster mover in Ali, and couldn't really land a good shot on a slick, defensive fighter in Machen. Tunney has a bit of both.



On the other hand, Tunney is relatively unproven at heavyweight, and we don't know how well he stands up to a skilled heavyweight who is bigger (but not by that much) than the ones he fought. Dempsey downed him with a great combination, but he continued his dominant performance and did win 19 of the other rounds they fought. But it does beg the question: what happens when Liston connects with one of his heavy right hands or left hooks?




Also, while Liston is the first one that comes to mind when you think of a stoppage, what do you think of Tunney's power? We know that Liston has been downed by a mediocre lightheavyweight and stunned/hurt by King, Whitehurst, DeJohn and down against Earls and Martin, although he was getting old by then.

Still, there were quite a few people thinking that Tunney could stop Rocky, who probably is more durable than Sonny. So what do you think?

Interesting match up. My feeling is Liston was in many ways overrated as a heavyweight champ, Tunney in many ways underrated. Another thought that comes to me is the idea of physical advantages. Definitly Liston did posses some, his reach for one. However, people, even in his own time, seemed to iendow him with much more size then he actually had. Liston's prime weight hovered between 210 and 215, at most 220, but at that weight he was not really soild. Tunney fought his fights with dempsey at about 190. Of course 25 pounds is not a meaningless amount of weight, but bigger weight advantages have been overcome. Tunney would have a major speed advantage, and would have the heart and tougness not to be intimidated the way Patterson seemed to have been. As for Liston getting his hook in..he may get it in..but to be really effective he would most likely have to set it up, the way Dempsey did with his lead right hand. I am not sure if Liston would have the skill speed or ring intelligence to pull that off. I see Tunney winning a comfortable decision, or even stopping Liston on his Stole the way Ali did. Tunney could also cut him, however, if they did fight 10 times, both fighting at their prime best, I would say that in at least 3 cases Liston would catch him effectively and finish Tunney. 7fights to Tunney, 3 to Liston is my predication.

[SuzieQ49]

I think this is a horrible matchup for Gene Tunney. I am shocked at the amount of people who pick Tunney over Liston. Tunney never fought a 215lb heavyweight in his life, let alone one of the greatest of all time. Yet people pick Tunney. These same people who pick tunney are the ones who claim Marciano would never beat frank bruno because hes "too small and never proved he could beat a big heavyweight". I sense Double Standards. First off, tunney would never even get in the ring with Sonny Liston for 3 reasons. Liston was Big, He was Black, and he was Good.


Back to Styles.. Tunney's whole style was built upon fighting smaller guys. He loved to use his long reach and range to box on the outside all night long. Trouble is his 6' in height and only 77" reach are going to fall short of Liston's measurements. He will not be able to control Liston at length with his jab. Bad News is Tunney does not have a backup plan. He was not a very effective inside fighter..he loved to clinch. His superior strength against small fighters allowed him to control the clinches. Against Liston, he will be the weaker of the two, and will be the one being manhandled in the clinches. On top of that, Liston was an excellent inside fighter, knowing how to rip short uppercuts and hooks to the head and body. Liston was also so strong. One of the strongest in history. Knew how to use his strength inside. Tunney also had trouble fighting on the ropes if trapped, which is why dempsey put him down. Tunney had a bad habit of keeping his hands too low which could be suicide against Listons long jab, and offensive assault. I like Liston here either by mid round stoppage or unanimous decision. Liston is a complete fighter. He can beat tunney in every way. Tunney was not like a Walcott in regards to using misdirections and taking unpredictable diagonal angles. Tunney would simply circle his opponent using fast feet...very effective but very predictable. Enough for Liston to track down and destroy.

[reznick]

I say Liston wins this one for sure by Knockout.

Ali was JUST fast enough. I don't think Tunney had that extra jolt in his hops the way Ali did.

[tommygun711]

Liston by knockout. everytime liston would catch up with gene Tunney it wouldn't be pretty because he's the bigger stronger man. anyway that 82/84 inch Long reach would give him problems as well

[BUDW]

Gene wins UD, he has the boxing skills required to keep Sonny from landing a ko punch and would score plenty against the slower Liston

[PetethePrince]

Liston TKO round 6-9