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Old 05-04-2010, 12:09 PM   #16
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Default Re: Is there a best time to go running?

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From what I've been told your body is more likely to burn muscle than fat. Fat is for extreme, like no food for days. If your body has larger muscles than is needed to run then they'll be broken down and used for energy first.
No your body will dip into its fat reserves as glycogen reserves are depleted. Its 6 of one half a dozen of the other. You are never going to be able to train without cortisol levels rising in response. The body will always trigger cortisol(muscle) and lipase(fat) secretion for metabolism in response to exercise. The degree of each is determined by the intensity of the exercise. It is not possible to train and not have rise in cortisol levels.

There are supplements you can take that will stunt cortisol prduction. The most notable legal one being phosphatidylserine in high doses but when you are doing that you will notice that you gas very quickly.

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Old 05-04-2010, 12:15 PM   #17
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Default Re: Is there a best time to go running?

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No your body will dip into its fat reserves as glycogyn reserves are depleted.
Source of this information?
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Old 05-04-2010, 12:23 PM   #18
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Default Re: Is there a best time to go running?

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Source of this information?

Read up on what lipase is and what triggers its secretion.
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Old 05-04-2010, 12:31 PM   #19
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Read up on what lipase is and what triggers its secretion.
Source of this information? I'm talking about scientific studies proving that eating on an empty stomach burns more fat.
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Old 05-04-2010, 12:32 PM   #20
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Default Re: Is there a best time to go running?

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Source of this information?
I'm not your secretary and this isn't debate class. How fat metabolism works is right at your lazy finger tips to discover for yourself.
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Old 05-04-2010, 12:59 PM   #21
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Default Re: Is there a best time to go running?

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I'm not your secretary and this isn't debate class. How fat metabolism works is right at your lazy finger tips to discover for yourself.
I've done plenty of research for myself in the past, thanks. This isn't about how fat metabolism works, I'm asking you for proof of what you're saying, if you can't prove it that's fine, but don't expect people to believe what you say if you can't.
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Old 05-04-2010, 01:12 PM   #22
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Alwyn Cosgrove -

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2) FASTED CARDIO
Are you ****ing kidding me? Seriously, are you ****ing kidding me? Why are we even talking about this?

Let's take two twins, both 200lbs, both doing the same training program, taking the same supplements, and following the same nutrition plan in the hopes of getting lean.

One difference, though: one of them eats 2 eggs and does 30 minutes of cardio three days per week. The other does 30 minutes of cardio, three days per week and THEN eats 2 eggs.

So what's the magical difference in terms of fat loss after six months? Drum roll please...
I'll tell you — no ****ing difference.

However, whenever you bring up this question we get a ton of responses saying, "This is exactly the information I needed!". Oh **** off. The reason you are still fat is because you couldn't decide to do cardio on an empty stomach or not?
30 minutes of steady state cardio will burn about 300 calories. Three times per week — 900 calories. Add that up for 26 weeks and we get a whopping: 23,400 calories.

Or 6.6 lbs of fat.

In six months.

If doing it fasted, burned 30% more (which it doesn't), you're looking at another 2lbs of fat in that same six month period.
Or an additional 0.07 pounds per week.

And for those of you who say — I do fasted cardio but I have a small scoop of protein first, then you're NOT DOING IT FASTED THEN, ARE YOU?

Fat people finish marathons all the time. Aerobic training doesn't do a hell of a lot for real world fat loss. Even if you're hungry.
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Old 05-04-2010, 02:22 PM   #23
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Thats an improper application of physics, which is common in "exercise physiology." Went to school with a lot of guys wanting to become "exercise physiologists", they never took a single physics class and they never took thermo nor could they if they wanted to they simply lacked the math skill to do it.

Alwyn Cosgrove is doing is improperly applying a system. In physics you try and define your system properly to minimize the analysis needed but you have to be careful not to make your system too broad. I see "exercise physiologists" do this a lot because they are nincompoops when it comes to physics.

Not surprising since Alwyn Cosgrove never took thermo or has the base knowledge to even audit the class much less understand it. I've looked at the course requirements for "sports science" degrees. The science education is mainly physiology most of the time a single non-calc based physics course isn’t even required as part of the core.

In the case of body fat and calorie balance we have tried to define a system that is too dynamic for our purpose as a single system and inappropriately applied the 1st law of thermodynamics to that system. Here is a hint. If you didn’t take thermo don’t apply its laws as an expert. You are not an expert on thermodynamics you are an ignorant dumbass Mr. Cosgrove. Any guy I can pull off the street knows just as much about thermo and maybe more.

In the case of the human body the dynamics are too complex to look at it as one system when it comes to fat burning. You cant lump it all into one system and then extrapolate fat metabolism from that dynamic system. When you lump it all as one system you loose the ability to separate its internal dynamics. That’s what you give up when you set broad systems. So you are misapplying the 1st law for that purpose.
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Old 05-04-2010, 02:34 PM   #24
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Alwyn Cosgrove

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For the past sixteen years, Alwyn Cosgrove has been committed to achieving excellence in the field of fitness training and athletic preparation. Specializing in performance enhancement, Alwyn has helped countless individuals and athletes reach their goals through sound scientific training.
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Alwyn has an honors degree in Sports Science from Chester College, the University of Liverpool, is certified with distinction as a strength & conditioning specialist with the National Strength and Conditioning Association and has been recognized as a Master of Sports Sciences with the International Sports Sciences Association.

Alwyn is also recognized and certified by the National Academy of Sports Medicine, the American College of Sports Medicine, the British Association of Sports And Exercise Sciences, Kingsports International Australia, the Society for Weight Training Injury Specialists, USA Weightlifting and the Chek Insitute of Corrective High Performance Exercise Kinesiology.

A former Taekwon-do international champion, Alwyn has utilized his personal experience as an athlete and combined it with the advanced theories of European Sports Science and the principles of modern strength and conditioning systems.
Through the years in this field Alwyn has been recognized as a specialist in Athletic Preparation by The United States, the United Kingdom and Australia and has studied extensively each country's approach to athletic preparation.

During his career as a strength and conditioning coach, Alwyn has worked with a wide variety of clientele, including several Olympic and national level athletes, five World Champions and professionals in a multitude of sports including boxing, martial arts, soccer, ice skating, football, fencing, triathlon, rugby, bodybuilding, dance and fitness competition.

A sought after expert for several of the country's leading publications including Men's Health magazine, Alwyn is available to develop physical preparation programs to take you to a new level of development




Hmmm. Listen to Alwyn or Windigo....?
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Old 05-04-2010, 02:37 PM   #25
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Default Re: Is there a best time to go running?

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Alwyn Cosgrove





[size=2][font=arial]Hmmm. Listen to Alwyn or Windigo....?
I can tell you right now that I've had way more physics education than him. He could have a PhD in Sports Science and not had a single physics class. Nothing in that bio tells me that he has any understanding of even basic phyiscs.
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Old 05-04-2010, 02:52 PM   #26
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Default Re: Is there a best time to go running?

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I can tell you right now that I've had way more physics education than him. He could have a PhD in Sports Science and not had a single physics class. Nothing in that bio tells me that he has any understanding of even basic phyiscs.
Nobody cares about your education in physics. Alwyn Cosgrove is a world-renown professional in all aspect of fitness. He's had clients from the general public to top class athletes. Experience is key in this stuff. He's used his experience to come to conclusions and try different things over the years and his ideas obviously work.

How many top class athletes have come to you and asked you to train them? I'm guessing none.

You can go on about physics all you want, but I'll listen to the guy thats been training people for 16 years and has vast experience and knowledge over some guy trying to say he knows better because he's better at maths.
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Old 05-04-2010, 02:55 PM   #27
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Default Re: Is there a best time to go running?

Just looked at the courses for a BS. in sports science from Chester University formerly Chester College of the University of Liverpool family.

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

As usual no true physics.

And ISAA isn't a real masters in the academic sense just a certificate you get.
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Old 05-04-2010, 02:57 PM   #28
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Default Re: Is there a best time to go running?

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You can go on about physics all you want, but I'll listen to the guy thats been training people for 16 years and has vast experience over some guy trying to say he knows better because he's better at maths.
So with experience you can bend the laws of physics to your will. Got it!

You are engaging in an appeal to authority. You probably though he had knowledge in physics till I proved otherwise. Now you are ranting. Ill take his world on technique, nutrition etc. But when he starts talking physics I know more than him by a long shot and I'm not even a physicist but I'm well beyond him. I know he is wrong and I know what he is doing wrong in his analysis. Applying the wrong system is a fundemental mistake that one makes over and over again.
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Old 05-04-2010, 03:15 PM   #29
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Default Re: Is there a best time to go running?

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So with experience you can bend the laws of physics to your will. Got it!

You are engaging in an appeal to authority. You probably though he had knowledge in physics till I proved otherwise. Now you are ranting. Ill take his world on technique, nutrition etc. But when he starts talking physics I know more than him by a long shot.
Why are you still going on about physics? My point is the guy has experience in the field and knows what works and what doesn't. He says your idea of running on an empty stomach is bullshit. I agree from my own experience.



For your edit - Hahaha. Feel free to go to his website and tell him he's wrong. I'd love to see you try and argue your point.

The guy has trained thousands of people, he uses those results to help others and tell others what works and what doesn't. You on the other hand have a basic understanding of physics and think you know better.

Tell you what, if you train thousands of people and top class athletes for 16 years and their results are better than Alwyn's I'll admit I'm wrong. Until then I'll go with Alwyn, thanks.
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Old 05-04-2010, 03:31 PM   #30
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Lets expound on this idea that we can look at the body as a broad system and ignore the internal dynamics.

Can I eat nothing but candy bars and chips so long as I hit my Cal/day goal?

Can I not train at all sit on the couch all day and simply reduce my Cal by what I would have burned at the gym?

Can I just eat one huge honking meal just before I go to bed to hit my Cal/day goal?

No of course not. Now Mr. Cosgrove knows this full well but he lacks the education to understand how this also means that he is misapplying the 1st law of thermodynamics. The reason none of these things are a good idea is because of the dynamics of the system.

Were Mr. Cosgrove correct and the 1st law properly applied than everything I listed above would be just fine. That’s the thing about physics. A law is a law if it applies to one it applies to all. If the use of the 1st law is valid in this case everything I listed above works. However the complex dynamics of his defined system makes the 1st law inapplicable for this purpose.
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