Prime: Muhammad Ali .Vs. Larry Holmes

[BUDW]

Ali easy

[kolcade4]

Prime Holmes vs Cooney looked good .Ali was pretty adaptive to whatever he came against .I say this is a battle that must be decided in a trilogy because I feel they will split a fight a piece and the last is the rubbermatch.

[Son of Gaul]

Holmes was Ali with more power who compensated for his lack of agility with prounounced fluidity. Holmes UD.

[Son of Gaul]

Originally Posted by timmers612

Lost in the one sided bout between Ali and Holmes was that Larry never punched when Ali moved, as slow as that was by Ali. In every round that Ali managed to move Larry methodically followed and did nothing until Ali stopped, then Larry would set up and let his punches go. Having viewed this a number of times this was the case without exception, there is simply no way a younger and much faster moving Ali who punched as he moved would not have taken advantage of this from Larry, and won many rounds because of it, I think clearly enough for the win.

Don't forget about the reach advantage for Holmes. A reach advantage is usually decisive when two jabbers of the same caliber step into the ring. Same thing as when two evenly matched swarmers match up and one has a pronounced strength/conditioning advantage.

[Ted Stickles]

Ali hands down he was to fast and to elusive in his prime, and he could punch more because his hands were better ...

[TommyV]

I would edge towards Ali, but I think the way in which Ali struggled in jabbing-matches with Norton and Doug Jones gives food for thought. I know Ali was either side of his prime in both matches, but I don't think he was detatched enough from his prime for it be dismissed completely.

[Mendoza]

Originally Posted by la-califa

Who would win this clash of Heavyweight Champions? Simular style, great boxers with superb jabs. 15 rounds

Holmes vis close UD. Ali had trouble with good jabbers at almost all stages of his career.

[timmers612]

Originally Posted by Son of Gaul

Don't forget about the reach advantage for Holmes. A reach advantage is usually decisive when two jabbers of the same caliber step into the ring. Same thing as when two evenly matched swarmers match up and one has a pronounced strength/conditioning advantage.

Good point, but Holmes showed several times in his career, and to me pronounced in his bout with Ali that he didn't punch at moving targets and waited until they were stationary to set up and throw. Eddie may have helped here or maybe not. Bennie Briscoe had a similar shortcoming in that despite trainers trying to teach him to punch when he slipped punches he never could adapt to this, and Larry just followed a very slowly moving Ali in their bout without the makeup to punch until he stopped. The Ali of the 1st Chuvalo bout for instance would have won many rounds just by moving and jabbing over the not throwing much Holmes. Its a case of Ali's main strength here against a shortcoming of Larry's.

[SuzieQ49]

Larry is getting too much credit in this thread. Are you people serious with the "Holmes UD" predictions? Come on. Holmes himself was taken to some very close controversial decisions to far less fighters, than Ali. He even avoided fighting a Ali clone in Greg Page.

[Stevie G]

Originally Posted by TommyV

I would edge towards Ali, but I think the way in which Ali struggled in jabbing-matches with Norton and Doug Jones gives food for thought. I know Ali was either side of his prime in both matches, but I don't think he was detatched enough from his prime for it be dismissed completely.

I get your drift,but Norton and Jones were different types of fighters than Holmes. Norton especially was more aggressive than Larry.

[Son of Gaul]

Originally Posted by SuzieQ49

Larry is getting too much credit in this thread. Are you people serious with the "Holmes UD" predictions? Come on. Holmes himself was taken to some very close controversial decisions to far less fighters, than Ali. He even avoided fighting a Ali clone in Greg Page.

Holmes did have some close fights in his prime against fighters who weren't even close to Ali's skill level but should we simply forget Ali's fights with Mildenberger, Chuvalo, Terrel and Bonavena? All of these fights were fairly competitive and neither of these guys could hold Larry Holmes jockstrap...

[Fighting Weight]

Have to bet the house on Ali in this one....and when the fight was over I'd have 2 houses

No way prime Ali loses to prime Holmes, the reflexes, footwork and all round speed would kill any HW that ever fought and Holmes is no exception although he'd make it more competitive than most. 10-5 Ali in a UD.

[groove]

Mendoza, you know nowt about ali. good jabbers. bs. ali used movement to combat that. look at the terrell fight or any peak 60s fight. norton had no chance against the moving ali - watch fight 2 - first 5 rounds. the only time ali was in top shape for a norton fight.

[Fighting Weight]

Originally Posted by groove

Mendoza, you know nowt about ali. good jabbers. bs. ali used movement to combat that. look at the terrell fight or any peak 60s fight. norton had no chance against the moving ali - watch fight 2 - first 5 rounds. the only time ali was in top shape for a norton fight.

He'll ignore you on that point - mainly because Ali defeated no end of top 5 challengers in his time but held a vastly inferior rounds won to rounds boxed ratio to VITLAY - who only fights bums

[JoeLaTurkey]

Awful fight; both men trying to be the slick, defensive-minded counterpuncher, both men reluctant to engage.

I think Ali's superior resoursefulness and adaptability gets him the decision here.