What type of chance would Tim Witherpsoon have vs Mike Tyson in 1986-1990?

[godking]

Originally Posted by Mendoza

Witherspoon had some top performances besides Holmes. In some cases Witherspoon beat top fighters, and then Tyson fought them after Witherpsoon had already beaten them. Witherpsoon defeated Tills, Smith, Tubbs and Bruno….then Tyson fought Smith, Tubbs, and Bruno in title fights. Witherpsoon was iced from the title.

I think Withepsoon has similar skills to Douglas, except he hit harder, had better defense and took a better punch. Those who have not seen a lot of Witherspoon will be surprised at how atheletic and defensive he could be.

Tyson showed early signs of becoming un-done vs Bruno where he was in fact stunned by a punch, and was upset by Douglas. While some say Tyson was slipping from 1988-1989, has anyone considered that Tyson had match up problems vs big fighters who can box and punch? I think there is something to be said about Tyson having issues vs bigger guys who can jab and punch. It’s true. Bruno, though he lacked confidence, had Tyson hurt in their fight, and of Coruse Douglas knocked Tyson out. Tyson had his hands full vs James Quick Tills. The fight was very close. Bigger fighters like Tucker, Green, and Smith went 12 with Tyson. Hmmm….

Yet when Tyson was in vs a non- power puncher his size or smaller Spinks or Frazier, or vs a out of shape Tubbs, or glass jawed Williams, he blew them out.

Assuming Withespoon is in shape, I believe he had the right stuff to upset Tyson from 1986-1990.

Green was belted across the ring for 10 rounds the only round he came close to winning was the 8th

Smith basically hung on for dear life .

Tucker did well in the early rounds but eventually was beaten (Tyson was outjabbing Tucker from round 7 on)

Because those three lasted the distance does'nt mean that they where ever close to winning.

[mr. magoo]

=TBooze]; and yes Smith was a late opponent for Tubbs, bit still Whitherspoon knew what was at stake, and the fact he already easily outpointed Smith should of meant another easy win. But Whitherspoon once again had not bothered to train properly and was mentally not with it.

Wrong,

The Smith fight was a fix, and Witherspoon was blackmailed into taking a dive with the understanding that if he hadn't he would test positive for drugs, which he did anyway. Spoon stated this in interviews years later, and actually wound up filing a multi-million dollar law suit against Don king productions for sabotaging his career.

Tim Witherspoon's loss to Boncrusher Smith was not a legitimate victory for Smith.

[TBooze]

Originally Posted by mr. magoo

Wrong,

The Smith fight was a fix, and Witherspoon was blackmailed into taking a dive with the understanding that if he hadn't he would test positive for drugs, which he did anyway. Spoon stated this in interviews years later, and actually wound up filing a multi-million dollar law suit against Don king productions for sabotaging his career.

Tim Witherspoon's loss to Boncrusher Smith was not a legitimate victory for Smith.

LOL, Actually the lawsuit was about lost earnings in the Bruno fight.

And having watched Smith/Whitherspoon I can think less painful ways of fixing a fight

The Smith fight was arranged so late as well, I seriously doubt there was time to put a fix in.

The truth is Whitherspoon wasted a potentially amazing talent because of lack of motivation and drug abuse, he is pin up child of The Lost Generation.

[Mendoza]

Originally Posted by mr. magoo

Wrong,

The Smith fight was a fix, and Witherspoon was blackmailed into taking a dive with the understanding that if he hadn't he would test positive for drugs, which he did anyway. Spoon stated this in interviews years later, and actually wound up filing a multi-million dollar law suit against Don king productions for sabotaging his career.

Tim Witherspoon's loss to Boncrusher Smith was not a legitimate victory for Smith.

This is how I see it as well. The fight was fishy.

Originally Posted by TBooze

LOL, Actually the lawsuit was about lost earnings in the Bruno fight.

And having watched Smith/Whitherspoon I can think less painful ways of fixing a fight

The Smith fight was arranged so late as well, I seriously doubt there was time to put a fix in.

The truth is Whitherspoon wasted a potentially amazing talent because of lack of motivation and drug abuse, he is pin up child of The Lost Generation.

Good post

[DavidPayne]

Witherspoon; one of the biggest underachievers of his generation. A zinging jab, decent physical tools and thudding right hand. In the right frame of mind he would have been somewhere between Tucker and Douglas in a match-up with Tyson.

Tim had the power to shudder Tyson with that right and the speed and technique to land it, his jab would have been a significant weapon too. Tyson of course has edges in speed, agility and raw power.

Good fight scuppered by Witherspoons contractually inspired 1 round knockout loss to Smith.

[ironchamp]

quote=Mendoza]I have to disagree here. Berbick, Spinks, Tubbs, and Stewart were very fearful of Tyson, and they fought Tyson before he was in prison.

Tubbs was not fearful of him and neither was Berbick. Even if they were all afraid it doesnt mean that Tyson used intimidation tactics rather all he did to bring fear to his opponents was brutally assualt and KO the fighter that preceeded them. Irregardless, Tyson would have beaten them whether or not they came to fight.

I don't think Witherpsoon would have been the best name on Tyson's resume of fights, but I do think he would be Tyson's best win had Tyson beaten him.

Spinks would have always been the better win regardless of whether or not Tyson beat Tim.

Tyson was over hyped in and out of the ring. While he did live up to it for a short period of time, he was over rated in hindsight. The badest man on the planet was beaten a few times. Even in the Lewis fight, many fans felt Tyson would win.

If that's the case then Dempsey, Liston, Foreman they all got "overhyped." They were punchers, consequently the public will always develop a fascination with them. The difference is that Tyson brought a level of technical competance that was never seen before from a puncher. His speed was incredible, his defense was stellar and his pure aggressive yet technical style combined with his power made for a fan friendly style. In retrospect he was as good as they said he was for a while. In the Lewis fight those who backed Tyson did so on the premise that Lewis's "shaky" chin would do him in. That's why I picked Tyson.

I disagree. Tyson just found himself in matches vs guys who were not afraid of him, and guys who could out box him. When the early KO did not happen for Tyson, he fell apart as the rounds went on.

When the early KO did not happen Tyson in general continued to assault his opponents and score a mid rounds KO or win a lopsided decision. Fergeson, Tillis, Green, Ribalta, Smith, Thomas, Tucker, Biggs, Ruddock 2x and Nielson are fighters who went 6 rounds or more against Mike and still lost. Then of course there is Douglas, Holyfield and Lewis but the key thing is that Tyson, when he was relevant, never lost a fight in which he was ahead after 2 rounds. So the notion that you have to get Tyson into the later rounds to beat him is nonsense. Most Tyson fights looking back have been decided within the first 2 rounds. Douglas, Holyfield and Lewis dominated early. Douglas won the first 2 rounds against Tyson, Holyfield (first fight) won the second round with the first being even or for either fighter, Lewis won the second round of thier fight in 2002. So he doesnt fall apart as the rounds wear on.

Work ethic and the will to win are parts of boxing. Tyson never had great heart. He never got off the deck to win any fight, and had problems controling his emotions in the ring. Tyson at times would foul, and when he was cracked, I think he lost confidence. The audio in Tyson’s corner vs Lewis picks up on Tyson wanting to quit a round before he was knocked out. I agree that Tyson was physically gifted in many ways.

Evander Holyfield once said that the only man of which he knew that can outwork him in the gym was Mike Tyson. Tyson had a great heart, from his rise from poverty to success in boxing takes heart to stomach what he went through. During the death of D'mato and Jacobs and his ugly divorce to Robin Givens being on public display he continued to win convincingly despite the drama around him. His will to win was very present in the Douglas fight after taking the beating that Buster administered throughout that fight. It was the first time in his career he was losing in such convincing fashion. Yet in the 8th round, he landed what could have been a fight ending uppercut- was that not the will to win? The moment Tyson fell out of love with being a fighter was the moment that Tyson began openly act on his frustrations. Getting off the deck to win a fight is not a criteria for greatness because frankly I believe you shouldnt be on the deck at all

[radianttwilight]

Amen to the above poster - the notion that you had to only be a "skilled big man who showed no fear" to beat Tyson is simply garbage.

It's a damn shame he split up with Rooney when he did, you could see the end coming from then on.

D'Amato's death and Rooney's firing weakened Tyson to such a point that Don King killed him. Look at the goons in his corner during the Douglas fight - they didn't even bring a fucking enswell and were holding a rubber glove to his face...what the fuck was that?

[Titan1]

Originally Posted by Mendoza

What type of chance would Tim Witherpsoon have vs Mike Tyson in 1986-1990?

Around 1986, he would have a decent chance, especially if he made it to the late rounds.After 86, forget it.

[ironchamp]

Originally Posted by Titan1

Around 1986, he would have a decent chance, especially if he made it to the late rounds.After 86, forget it.

What is going to change if he makes into the later rounds?

[Titan1]

Originally Posted by ironchamp

What is going to change if he makes into the later rounds?

\

I think he would have a good chance of winning, but it wouldn't be much more.